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From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2020-06-18 12:46:53 #29


Overpopulation? Of what ?(rofl)

From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2020-06-18 12:51:13 #30


Bill Gates got kicked out of Africa after close to 500,000 kids became paralysed, or died, due to the polio vax. Neither Gates nor the head of the WHO have ANY medical qualifications whatsoever.

As far as the viruses coming from an outside source, that is a lie that has been foisted upon us for 150 years. A virus / exosome is something our body produces during detoxification. Therefore, a virus is a dead entity and cannot be caught other by injection.

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2020-06-18 16:38:34 #31


If you want to stay sane you cannot think about the question "How do you solve overpopulation?" for very long. Economics needs to change for a start. Our only true currency is air, water, soil, biodiversity and energy. Economics needs to be restructured so that all five are used sustainably.


Unfortunately, consumption underpins present-day economics. It every person on Earth consumed at the same level as the average American the world population limit would be 1.5 billion. If every person on Earth consumed at the same rate as the average French person the world population limit would be 3 billion. If every person consumed at the same rate as the average person in India then the population limit would be close to the current population of the Earth.


There are some scientists who think the world's population will stabilize at 12 billion and stay there. Scientists don't talk much about overpopulation any more. The ones from the 1960s and 1970s who tried to draw attention to the problem predicted massive starvation and have been mocked ever since. Changes to agricultural practices have given us an oversupply of food for the present moment. However, if you took away genetically modified foods we would currently have a serious food shortage. Our next serious world-wide shortage in the coming decades is likely to be water.


I think our only hope for long term survival is AI. Ironically this was Stephen Hawking's greatest fear. If the world is going to sustain 12 billion people that could only be done with completely different ways of consumption and modes of living compared to what we have now. My view is that we have passed the point where the world can be saved by the average person thinking carefully and doing the "right" thing. That may have been possible 50 years ago. We have passed the point where we can be saved by our greatest scientific minds. Only artificial intelligence has any chance of solving the massive complexity of supplying an overpopulated Earth with enough food, water and consumer materials needed for a reasonable quality of life.


From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2020-06-18 22:01:05 #32


Quite frankly I have given up hope with respect to @Oldghost, but @Imi5922 still seem to have a little 'hope' left in you.

Firstly, there is no 'covid-19'. It's just another name they have given to the flu. Just the same as all the other names such as 'bird flu', 'Spanish Flu', Ebola', Zika;, et al

A 'coronavirus', according to medical dictionaries is simply the 'common cold', of which there's no cure, and rightly so. It's like finding a cure for a cut thumb.

NONE of the so-called 'viruses' have ever been isolated. That includes AIDS, Mad-Cow Disease, and all the others.

We are now in the year 2020 (or so they say), and that means 'hindsight / 2020 vision', and the truth is coming out.

The AMA was founded in 1847. In 1897 it was incorporated. What's the goal of a corporation?

Not only have WE been lied to (in the name of the mighty $$), but doctors studying at Rockerfella medical insitutes for 7 years have also been lied to.

100 years ago there was a 'pandemic' of the 'Spanish Flu' that killed more than 50 million people. We now know that this is complete BS

These people were killed due to a vax. (Check out 'Orphan Trains' to understand why)

My school was closed for 3 months. I didn't spend my time watching porn or Netflix. I spent my time doing research.

Quite frankly I don't care whether or not you want to roll up your sleeve, but please be aware that if you do, there's a good chance you'll be dead by Christmas.

I came across an article written in 1870. It made me cry. I'll send it to John and ask him to forward it to you

From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2020-06-18 22:10:10 #33

I forgot the link

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2020-06-19 13:00:18 #34



Basic differences between exosomes and viruses


Exosome Size 30–100 nm                             Virus size 20 - 400 nm (depending on virus)

Exosome Shape - Uniform, cup-shaped        Virus shape - Variable

Exosome Charge - Usually lacking charge    Virus charge - Uniform, charged


Covid-19 RNA can only be made in the human body AFTER infection from an external source. I cannot find any scientific papers that claim otherwise.


Sorry to disappoint you Paul but I rate Oldghost's research skills way above yours.

From: Australia New South Wales Sydney @oldghost Time : 2020-06-19 15:26:09 #35

@ pf1 you got your continents mixed up too - the original malicious false claim was for India, and it was discredited and debunked by WHO.

There is something pathological about your willingness to seize on and spread malicious misinformation and falsehood.




From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2020-06-19 23:26:59 #36

@Imi5922   When I tried to explore the current thinking of the scientific community on overpopulation I was hit by a wall of conspiracy and religious conservative articles when I just googled  "overpopulation". Science was missing big time. I had to google "overpopulation scientific literature" to get a scientific perspective.


"Humanity is trying to eat the world, and in the process, we are vomiting up an Anthropocene epoch of unprecedented ecological destruction"

This is a philosophy article worth reading


This Scientific American article might reassure some when it claims the jury is out. I disagree. I also see overpopulation as the key driver of Climate Change but this article fails to make that connection.


This has an interesting dilemma for me. It says we should have fewer children or no children. I had 4 children (I wanted to stop at two but my wife wanted more. I had a vasectomy after the fourth child). However, when the extended families of my late wife and I are taken into account the overall average was one child per couple. So far my children aged 28 to 36 have produced no children.


David Attenborough's position is closest to mine. He describes Homo sapiens "as the Earth's plague".


You have to conclude that my position in the scientific community is a minority one. That staggers me because to me it seems so obvious that overpopulation is the number one problem that we face. While everyone tries to deal with lesser problems we move closer to extinction with each passing decade. So far the most effective measures to deal with overpopulation have been increasing the education of women and giving women the political power to have control of their own bodies. However, this approach will work only if the Earth has the capacity to sustain 12 billion Homo sapiens. I doubt that the Earth does unless we drastically change the way we produce food and the way we live. I suspect that will only be possible with AI playing a much larger role in how we live our lives. That prospect is almost as scary as extinction.

From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2020-06-20 12:55:38 #37


Covid-19 does not exist. It has never been isolated and identified.

I'm sure you can find some information to show otherwise, but I won't hold my breath

From: Australia New South Wales Sydney @oldghost Time : 2020-06-20 23:29:28 #38

@melcyan  Overpopulation does not equal annihilation - it is ultimately self regulating; how the self-regulation will operate will be determined.  It may/will involve regulation race class and other forms of discrimination.  But it will naturally work.

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2020-06-21 15:23:44 #39


"Overpopulation does not equal annihilation - it is ultimately self regulating; how the self-regulation will operate will be determined.  It may/will involve regulation race class and other forms of discrimination.  But it will naturally work."


What you have stated is the majority view of scientists, including many that I hold in the highest regard. It is interesting that when I researched this I looked at Wikipedia last. That amazes me because I would always tell my students to make Wikipedia one of their first readings but not to quote it. It did not amaze me that out of over one hundred internet sources on overpopulation glimpsed or viewed in entirety, Wikipedia covered the topic the best with over 354 references and a solid sourcing of the relevant scientific literature.


I have no confidence that Homo sapiens population size on planet Earth will be controlled naturally. In the biological world the natural enemies of Homo sapiens are viral and bacterial. Maybe they will win out and restore the balance. If population growth is going to occur through reproduction numbers naturally decreasing, there is a chance that it may occur as population trends towards 12 billion. I find it very difficult to accept that 12 billion Homo sapiens and the farm animals and crops and water that they will require will be able to exist within a sustainable ecosystem but I have been wrong before.


In the 1960s and 1970s I could not see genetic engineering coming. I could not see computers taking over. I definitely could not see the internet coming. I had no idea that it was possible to build buildings that have near zero energy requirements to maintain. Computers and Artificial Intelligence have opened a whole new world of amazing possibilities for us.


I now think we have reached the  point of no return. The last roll of the dice for our long term survival is Artificial Intelligence.


There is a lot of rubbish on the internet written about overpopulation. If you want to get a handle on the present state of affairs (but no answers unfortunately) then read Wikipedia "Human overpopulation".


From: Canada British Columbia Vancouver @Imi5922 Time : 2020-06-22 04:34:27 #40


Thanks to your last comment, I now know where you're standing at this turning point of history. If you think the most pressing issue of mankind as of today is overpopulation and climate change, we are light years away from each other.


I love science, but I don't like scientists who want to push down their agenda on everybody's throat. If you think all scientists are fair and can't be bought for saying and doing things that are in the realm of deception, then you are far from reality. When people like Al Gore, David Attenborough, Greta whatever-her-name-is, the Obama's with their newly-bought waterfront mansion, and all the virtue signalers of Hollywood and billionaires are going to put their money where their mouths are, I will believe in climate change. Why do all these people make insane amount of money by preaching about something that has always been a natural cycle of Earth? How many times have these people renamed the same problem to fit their current narrative? I wonder when they are going to run out of names.


Climate change is real, but not in the way they are telling us. You drew a direct connection between overpopulation and climate change. Let me ask you these, why were there big swings of the climate in the past when there were no humans on Earth? Why was there a climate change when there were only 100,000 people in the world? Earth has its own cycles, so has the sun. They have great effect on each other. No matter how much meat humans eat a year, no matter how many times a cow farts a day, Earth's climate will keep changing. The real question is how much humans with their lifestyle actually speed this change up. I would say it's on a small scale. The most profound question is why people get rich by falsifying climate data.


It's a bit harsh, but at the same time laughable, describing homo sapiens “as the Earth's plague.” Let me be harsh, too. If these people who say this thing were serious, they should commit mass suicide for two reasons: first, to save the planet, second, to act by example. If they didn't, they're just virtue signaling so they can feel good about themselves. If you want to talk about who the real plague of the society (not the Earth), it is those who make common citizens believe that it is all their fault that the Earth is dying while they're getting richer by the day. They're leeches. And not just that but they're giving serious money to once-reputable universities to teach new generations for their “unquestionable science” so they can have a constant flood of people to buy into their bullshit.


I think there are more urgent issues in the world right now than overpopulation and climate change. This year is going to be a turning point in the world's history. You and I are on the opposite side. It's obvious now. I know I can't change your mind about things. I know I can't say, put your books down and start reading real news, about real issues. Decent people are losing their jobs, beaten up, and killed because they dare to say “All lives matter.” Statues of historical figures are pulled down all over the western world by indoctrinated university students. These youngsters are fighting for their demise, blindly, brainlessly, like zombies—good job on the frontier of the education system. The new generations have no respect for the past, present, future or their own country's flag, not even you and I. They want to defund the police, so they can hunt down everybody who doesn't think like them, all you can kill style. For example, Chaz in Seattle.


You want a change? Clean the education system from socialist nut jobs. They have no place there to teach their political propaganda to innocent minds.


So far the most effective measures to deal with overpopulation have been increasing the education of women and giving women the political power to have control of their own bodies.


Why do need women political power to have control of their bodies? You lost me.

From: Australia New South Wales Sydney @oldghost Time : 2020-06-22 17:13:04 #41

The allegory of kitchen utensils has been left far behind us ... let me see whether I can restore them just a little.  The fork and knife tell the curvacious spoon lady, you just don't cut the mustard!  You don't get to pick and choose. but the savvy spoon says I've got the vote, my vote 'trumps' your sharp edge and stabbing prongs. You want to be President, you need my vote. Abortion is my right!

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2020-06-23 04:16:53 #42

Sorry Imi, it will be 2 days before I have time to respond.

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