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Should there be a “Third Sex” or “Third Gender” Membership Option on CLM/ALM?

From: China 四川(si chuan) 成都(cheng du ) @abi513 Time : 2011-02-26 09:17:32
In the past there have been Ladyboys on CLM, and there appears to be several now on ALM. Should CLM/ALM install a “Third Sex” or “Third Gender” option for membership registration and searches?

For more on this, you may want to read my Blog posting Come Fly with Me: The Third Sex

What say you?

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From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 杭州(hang zhou ) @JohnAbbot Time : 2011-02-28 00:37:21 #1
This subject, and David's excellent blog on it which you must read, is extremely important and I'm really grateful that David has brought it to the fore. I'm going to try to respond intelligently to the question posed by David, though I admit being a little unsure of what exactly is a "ladyboy".

My understanding, though, is that a true ladyboy is a person who is equipped with a penis but is otherwise a female hormonally and/or spiritually. They may or may not come equipped with substantial breasts but that is equally true of females generally. My understanding has always been that a ladyboy by definition is attracted to and wishes to mate with a man (I stand to be corrected on this point).

This person may have surgery that replaces their penis with a working vagina at which time they cease to be a "ladyboy" and become a "woman", albeit one with an interesting history.

CLM and ALM are websites that are focused on heterosexual males meeting heterosexual females for long term relationships. As such we do not accept ladyboys. If there are ladyboys on here it's because either they have hidden from our approving employees that they are ladyboys or they have disclosed it in a manner that is not easily recognized by our approving employees. The latter is more likely the case because our approving employees are Chinese, and unlike many of the other SE Asian countries, in China they have not been welcomed out of the closet and 99% of Chinese are baffled by the whole concept. When a ladyboy starts his/her username with "ts" or indicates "she" is carrying "extra baggage" or any of multiple other intentional tip offs the tip off will float over our Chinese employees heads each and every time. So the ladyboy remains a member until he/she is finally noticed or until someone reports him/her.

The reason we do not approve ladyboys is that we understand them to generally be persons sporting male equipment seeking men, and we're pretty confident that we don't have any men seeking "persons sporting male equipment". If we were a Gay site we would approve ladyboys for our site.

We will, and have, knowingly approved ex-ladyboys (post operation) as we now credit them with being women sporting female equipment seeking men, which means that we have men who are possibly seeking them, and since they've been honest and stated their interesting history we know that the men are not going to be interested in them blindly but with their eyes wide open. So why not approve them.

Of course if they apply and say nothing they will be approved as well because we have no idea they have an "interesting history", to us they are simply women.

Potentially, and in fact it is in the long term plans, we will be opening gay sites because we see a need for such sites where the Asian or Chinese individuals are seeking sincere long term same sex relationships and most gay sites seem very focused on casual sex and short term dating. At that time we will welcome ladyboys to join our gay sites and when they cease to be ladyboys by virtue of a change of packaging we will welcome them to transfer their membership over to our "straight" sites if they wish. I'm not sure how we will determine if they really have had the surgery but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

That is our current position on ladyboys but we're prepared to be open minded about it so we're looking forward to hopefully receiving lots of comments here and on David's blog to see where the membership stands.
From: China 四川(si chuan) 成都(cheng du ) @abi513 Time : 2011-02-28 09:01:55 #2
John, thanks for clearly delineating the CLM/ALM position on Ladyboys.

I fully understand good help is hard to find in any country, as well as the fact advanced English language skills by your staff may be necessary to “Decode” some member profiles to separate the boys from the girls.

However, I recently noticed one of your prominently featured “Newest Asian Girls to Join” geminilover1983, Manila Philippines identified themselves as a “She Male” on their Member Profile page under category “About Me”. No decoding was necessary here, but only simply reading their profile before approval.

However, since my recent Blog posting “Come Fly with Me: The Third Sex” was published, with several subsequent comments by you and others, this “She Male” profile information was deleted. In effect, HE is now “Underground” or incognito posing as a woman.

Because they are now underground, some unsuspecting, normal (whatever that is) heterosexual male could conceivably travel half-way around the world, only to learn his “Girl” is really one of the notorious “Chicks with Dicks”. Surprise, surprise!

Therefore, maybe your heterosexual membership policy should be clearly published, acknowledged, and accepted by the prospective member before allowed to join. I would suggest your terms also include NO refunds if they are a paying member. Of course, people lie, but maybe they don’t know the CLM/ALM policy and, with no other option available, they feel compelled to list themselves as a “Woman” because they believe they are.
From: United Kingdom Devon Exeter @hayabusa Time : 2011-03-01 00:10:01 #3
As always John, a brilliant (true sense of the word) reply. I am ever in awe of your kindness and the diligence you offer members here. 'Ladyboys' are not my cup of tea, but you do a great job and if there's a place for them, I'm sure you'll furnish it in the very best of taste.
From: United States Mississippi Wiggins @thracken Time : 2011-03-01 09:34:44 #4
No there should not be a " third sex" there are alot of gay websites lets not turn this on into one also.......
From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 杭州(hang zhou ) @JohnAbbot Time : 2011-03-04 00:38:08 #5
It actually is not at all true that "she male" is a dead give away as to what is going on to a Chinese girl. Without explanation they don't get it at all. Our written profiles are all read before they are approved but to be completely honest what we are vetting is much more serious in our opinion than whether or not the person registering is a ladyboy. However, since it has come up, we will take some steps for it to be much more difficult for the approving employee to miss the tip off words. It's in my notes for the next meeting with the developer.

Meanwhile I'm far more interested in whether or not we should be allowing ladyboys on the site in the opinion of the membership?
From: Canada British Columbia Victoria @bmccull Time : 2011-03-13 06:13:43 #6
Including ladyboys in your proposed gay site will be inappropriate. In general, ladyboys appeal to heterosexual men. Gay men are not usually interested!
Anonymous1870
@Anonymous1870 Time : 2012-05-15 00:51:02 #7
Uh...I am 100% heterosexual and have ZERO interest in "ladyboys" even post ops. If she isn't 100% natural born female I want no part of "her" , "him', or "it". Sorry if I seem blunt and stubborn but that is me. I have no way of knowing how to determine 100% unless we insist on naked video chats..LOL.. Not likely to happen.. I know I would likely become somewhat "violent" if I were to spend my money for a trip to China to meet my possible future wife and find out the hard way that "she" was actually a "he". And any way you look at it, whether or not he or she looks like a female, has breasts, talks like a female and maybe even thinks like a female when the panties come off and there is a penis hanging there it's a dude..

So..bottom line..my opinion..no to lady boys..even post ops. They are still not 100% natural born females. Keep 'em on the gay site.

ANONYMOUS
From: United States Alabama Level Plains @JoshuaJ Time : 2012-05-26 21:11:52 #8
I would prefer that they actually have the option to be honest and then those who still list themselves as female can be treated like any other scammer, but whether that's on this site or a special gay version, I think the policy for heterosexual pairings should be made absolutely clear and if it is on a special site, they should be redirected to it if they try to list themselves as transgendered. However, I also have to agree with the guy who said it would be a bit of an insult to gays to list them on a gay site, as well as potentially a waste of effort from the transexual, as the interest tends to be nothing more than a fetish for straight and bisexual men.

In the end, I think we can all agree that travelling around the world just to find out that your future bride is packing heat once you get there is something we would all find unpleasant and would like to avoid.
From: Iceland Nordhurland Vestra Akureyri @Icekuma23 Time : 2013-02-03 02:33:46 #9
This would be a sure way of bringing down your web sites credibility.

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