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Don't treat me better than dog.

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2016-10-24 11:24:05

“Don’t treat me better than dog”. These words from my partner's lips took me by surprise. I had difficulty stifling a smile that was starting to form at the corner of my mouth. “I am serious! Don’t treat me better than dog.”



My partner often makes strange demands of me but this one just went straight to the top of the list. My partner loves my dog too much. The dog is my partner’s boss. My partner is my boss. I am the dog’s boss. This menage a trois is a never-ending comical power-play.



Twelve days ago my dog had an operation and she (my dog) has to wear a large protective plastic collar for two weeks to stop her biting her stitches. Two days ago my partner spotted an eye infection and blamed me. It was not my fault. I could go into detail here but the "detail" just got me into more trouble with my partner , so I will just repeat “It was not my fault”.



I have been found guilty of negligence by my partner. I always treat my partner with love, care and devotion. I am now in the “dog-house” until I treat my dog with the same love, care and devotion that I treat my partner. I have written this thread with my dog sitting on my lap. A new world is dawning.



I hope I have now explained the title “Don’t treat me better than dog.


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From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 杭州(hang zhou ) @JohnAbbot Time : 2016-10-25 13:49:41 #1

Melcyan, I love this thread.

In our home, our dog and I are very close buddies, who love to get together to play some games, have some fun and plot how we might get away with some activity that the leader of the pack, she who must be obeyed, might not approve of. Of our two cats, the male (fixed but still very male) joins in the fun and games too. Quite literally.

However, being a cat, he is less afraid of the pack leader than the dog and I, but at the same time does, when push comes to shove, acknowledge that, indeed, she must be obeyed on some occasions.

The female cat, however, has little use for us three males and chooses only to hang around with the pack leader, and to sleep a lot when she isn't doing her best to suck up to the pack leader and get extra goodies and attention that are denied to us three males.

Dog, male cat and I tend to dream of someday being spoiled as much as the little princess, but it is not going to happen in this life.

Just the same, we are a happy and united little group and generally well taken care of by the pack leader so long as we obey.

From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2016-10-25 17:28:16 #2


@melcyan

@JohnAbbot

 

Reading your little 'conversation' here calls to mind a couple of phrases that are commonly used in the East-end of London.

'Have you guys 'eard yourselves?'

'Ave a word wiv yourself, will ya?'

It's a strange coincidence that I'm currently putting together a blog on the subject of 'obedience' and when published, it will just add further weight to the argument you guys have begun here.

Put simply, women generally think that they are the 'boss', when in reality, they are only so because we men are foolish enough to allow them to be.

 

 

Anonymous25348
@Anonymous25348 Time : 2016-10-25 23:26:56 #3

Melcyan, you have just described the Chinese woman's temperment to a tee....they will blame you for most things even though it is not your fault, yet they seldom if ever take blame or admit they are wrong. Please do not say your partner is your "boss"

Personally I will never and have never let a wife, gf or partner ever be my boss.....

(y)

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2016-10-26 07:42:30 #4

@JohnAbbot

Great comment John. You don't reveal glimpses of your private life very often, but this one is a gem. It feels good to be understood.

 

My guess is that you, like me, are more focussed on what you can do for your partner than what your partner can do for you. I think that approach is present in all great relationships. We may look "under the thumb" to males who are more selfish but having that giving and serving focus creates amazing rewards that are beyond the dreams of selfish men.

 

 

From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 杭州(hang zhou ) @JohnAbbot Time : 2016-10-26 14:51:05 #5

@paulfox1 - I disagree with you entirely. At least insofar as good Chinese women are concerned, I believe they never think they are the boss. They act like they are the boss, they sound like they are the boss, and in fact they make themselves the boss by virtue of their unbelievable will and strength, but they truly do not recognize that they are the boss. They will stand there and tell you that you are the boss, with all sincerity, until they are blue in the face, and they genuinely believe it, even though they are doing that in between the endless instructions they are handing you as to the chores you need to complete and the changes to yourself that you need to achieve in order to perfect yourself.

Only on the day you wake up and realize that she is the boss, that she deserves to be the boss, and that your life is immeasurably better, and you are an immeasurably better person, thanks to her being the boss, and not before that day, will you suddenly understand how much better life is when you are no longer burdened with trying to be the boss.

@Anonymous25348 - maybe the thoughts that you and Paul have expressed go a long way to explain why you're struggling to find that lasting love you have been seeking.

@melcyan - I think you and I are on the same path, but I suspect my reasons for finding the path were more selfish than yours. Just the same, now that I have found the path, I do indeed take much joy in doing what I can for my partner to help lighten the load she has taken on herself to trying buld a better, happier life for both of us. Because I love not being the boss, and I am very grateful that she has set me free of that overwhelming weight.

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2016-10-26 18:18:44 #6

@JohnAbbot

@paulfox1

@Anonymous25348

When I say my dog is boss of my partner, my partner is boss of me and I am boss of my dog – that is supposed to be funny, like a cat chasing its tail. My partner genuinely sees me as her boss, even though I often feel that she is my boss.

 

When my dog dies my partner has told me not to get another dog no matter how much she begs me to get another one. I have to do everything my partner says as long as she is right. I must not do what she says if she is wrong. If I do what she says and the outcome is wrong, then it is my fault because it is my job to correct her mistakes. If you understand that, then congratulations, you are ready for a Chinese partner.(well at least one like mine - Chinese women are not all the same)

From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2016-10-26 18:35:10 #7


@JohnAbbot

Disagreeing with me is your prerogative. However, I see your comment as one that is attempting to typify Chinese women in the way you are suggesting. Your wife is not typical of most of the Chinese women I have met, and I doubt that Melcyan's wife is either.

There are 'good women' in all countries of the world, and 'good women' don't all come from China !

It's true that many Chinese women possess certain qualities that are not so commonly found in Western women, and that's why many Western men seek one for a partner.

 

That said, I work with dozens of Chinese women and also teach many of them as 'mature students', a lot of whom have been married for a long time and remain stuck with the 'China mentality'.

Neither your wife nor Melcyan's wife lives in China anymore. Perhaps that has more to do with their attitude towards you both than the inherent 'goodness' that you seem to be attempting to portray.

 

The new blog that I mentioned in my previous comment has now been submitted. I'm happy for you to publish it 'out-of-turn' should you wish to do so.

Anonymous25354
@Anonymous25354 Time : 2016-10-26 23:45:58 #8

John, Melcyan, if you are comfortable in your own situations of having your women being your boss then by all means do so. I just stated that I will never let a woman be my boss, I don't think any man should allow his woman to be his boss and I personally feel much better on a daily basis that way. On the other hand if a man "allows" a woman to "think" she is the boss and in control then that is an all together different kettle of fish.

On a related thought I will never allow a woman to control my money as I am smart enough and quite capable of managing my own finances in a intelligent manner. I have no interest in controlling my woman's finances unless she asked me to do so.

By the way John I am not "struggling" to find a lasting love, I am like many other people here and want to fnd the "right" woman for me and who believes I am the right man for her...

 

(ninja)

From: Australia South Australia Adelaide @melcyan Time : 2016-10-27 17:45:27 #9

“Boss” is an easy word to use, but it is probably an inaccurate word to use to describe any part of the dynamics of a successful husband and wife relationship. The word “Boss” is far more appropriate for an employer/employee relationship. Team leadership is really what we should be considering here.



The late Gareth Humphris once referred to a husband and a wife as a team. I really liked that description. When one team member falters, the other steps up. That is how good teams work. The concept of one leader and one follower in a husband and wife team is a recipe for disaster.



Leadership in sporting teams has undergone a complete revolution in the last few decades. It is rare now in high-level sport for leadership to rest with just one person. Nearly every professional sporting team now has a “leadership group”. When one of the leadership group falters or is injured the others step up.



My partner and I switch leadership roles in our marriage team depending on the nature of the situation facing us. I tend to be a “big picture” thinker and my partner tends to be a “small picture” thinker. We are lucky that we are not both “small picture” or both “big picture” thinkers. Most day to day problems need “small picture” thinking and consequently my partner leads.



For “big picture” issues like a new house, insurances policies, long term money management or even a new computer, I am the leader. Often my partner will start leading on “big picture” items but passes the ball to me when confronted by the first oncoming tackle. It is impossible for me to make a decision that benefits me and causes my partner to suffer. If one suffers, we both suffer.



No matter what, there is never any doubt that we are on the same team. When one falters, the other steps up, even if it is way outside their natural comfort zone. Neither of us chooses to be the leader. The situation or problem that we face chooses which one will lead.


From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 杭州(hang zhou ) @JohnAbbot Time : 2016-10-28 12:45:29 #10

@PaulFox1 - when I was responding to you, I specifically said "I disagree with you entirely. At least insofar as good Chinese women are concerned,...".



The reason I said "as far as good Chinese women are concerned" was to clarify that I was not "attempting to typify Chinese women" but was only speaking about good Chinese women. Of course there are Chinese women who are not good, and I was not including such women in my discussion.



Of course there are also good American women and good Canadian women and good Latinas, and good Russian women. There are good Filipinas and good Thai women. Etc., etc., etc. But I was also not talking about them. I was discussing good Chinese women.



I am going to ask you to please consider that, and read what follows as well, and then go back and read my initial comment to which you were responding and see if you get a different meaning from it than your initial understanding.



@Anonymous25354 - in no way did I say you (and Paul) are "struggling to find that lasting love..." as an insult to either of you. Perhaps a better way to say it might have been "not having much luck finding that lasting love...". But what I was referring to is that you maybe setting rules for a lasting relationship that by there very nature excludes "good Chinese women" from being candidates.



Based on your statement that "I will never let a woman be my boss" I suggest you are looking for your ideal woman in the wrong country/culture.  In my opinion a good Chinese woman is, by her very nature, going to be the boss of her husband some of the time. So once you've set the rule that a woman can never be your boss, you've ruled good Chinese women out. 



Good Chinese women care about their husbands. They want the best for him and they have strong feelings and opinions on what is best for him. Often those feelings and opinions differ from his own.  Add to that equation that good Chinese women are generally very strong willed about what they think is best. They are, as I have frequently borrowed the quote, "steel rods swathed in flowers".



Just, for example, let me suggest that a good Chinese women will generally seriously want her husband to be healthy, to be happy, to be productive and to live long. A good Chinese woman is very unlikely to be a drinker, nor to understand why someone would choose to be a drinker. So if you are someone who likes to tie one on once in a while, she is very likely to view that behaviour as unhealthy, an unreasonable way to pursue happiness, non-productive and very likely something that is going to shorten your life. You, of course, are not likely to agree with her on this point.



However, your not agreeing is not going to stop her from repeatedly doing everything she can to make you see the light and stop drinking. And that will include pointing out to you time and again, in a not timid manner, the error of your ways. While that will seem a lot like nagging to you, while you may feel it's your decision and she should leave you alone on the topic, while you may feel on such occasions that it is not her place to tell you how to live your life and she should shut up and mind her own business, in the face of unlimited science on her side, what you cannot say is she is wrong. And you cannot say she doesn't care about you and your health and future, because if she didn't care she would not bother trying to get you to change.



But if you do change, then you have succumbed to her will and in that instant she has been your boss.



This is one example of several life changes I have made because of my wife, and her relentless pursuit of a better, healthier me. And all of those changes have resulted in a better, healthier, happier me. In all of those instances she has been the boss, and I have chosen to succumb to her relentless caring and wisdom.



@melcyan - your description of when your partner is the boss and when you are the boss pretty closely mirrors my wife and I.  In my mind I have come to see my role as being in charge of the forest, and her role as being in charge of all the individual trees.  You say big picture / little picture.



But in fairness to my wife (and maybe your partner), taking care of all the trees (all the little pictures, perhaps?) takes up about 90% of the decisions to be made, and taking care of the forest (or the big picture, perhaps?) takes up about 10% of the decisions to be made. So that makes me the boss on far, far fewer occasions than her. But, as I have already stated, I am happy in these circumstances.



As an aside it reminds me a little of a joke I once heard a stand up comedian make. It went like this:



"Im my marriage I wear the pants in the family, and I make all the major decisions. My wife makes all the minor decisions. 



For example I decide whether Trump or Clinton should be the next President of the United States. I decide if we should support a war against Russia.



She decides little things like what house we will buy or what car we will drive."


From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2016-10-28 22:20:50 #11

@melcyan

You are correct. However, the phrase 'Husband and Wife Team' has been around for a long time, long before the dear departed Gareth Humphris used it.

Recognising one another's strengths and weaknesses is a huge help. One of my (arguable) strengths is 'reliability', yet I tend to be extremely 'impulsive', which is arguably a weakness.

Conversely, my (now ex-) wife was extremely unreliable when it came to meetings, appointments, etc, yet had the patience of the proverbial saint. It was her that would put the old 'brakes on' and stop me from making impulsive decisions that affected the both of us, whilst I would always 'cover her back' when it came to her tardiness. It worked!

I had dinner with a Chinese female friend of mine last night and we somehow got onto the subject of relationships in general. I've made no secret over the years that I can't be 'done' with the Chinese 'Hello, will you marry me?' attitude, and I also dislike the Chinese cultural peer pressure that forces many women into marrying someone just because it's the wish of their parents.

Many, many years ago, my wise-old Mum taught me one single sentence that still resounds in my ears to this very day: 'Son, you don't KNOW someone until you live with them!'

My God! Truer words have never been spoken. Maybe this is another reason why the divorce-rate in China is so high? It's not just the lack of 'love' - that's not difficult to overcome - but certain incompatibilities, when living under the same roof, can certainly take their toll on a relationship.

Even though young Chinese people are perhaps becoming a little more Westernised and a little less conservative, it's still extremely difficult for any Chinese woman to co-habit with her partner. Neighbours and elder family-members will frown upon them even if their friends and peers don't.

From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 宁波(ning bo ) @zqy2014 Time : 2016-10-29 18:56:40 #12

@melcyan

First I can feel your partner is a kind and compassionate person with good heart. After reading your mail for 2nd time, I can feel your proud of her, caring to her and your humor as well. As for one of the dogs lovers, I completely understand your partner's feeling and her true intention when she said that sentence to you. She takes the dog as one of members in the family and hope to treat the dog equally. Then she was mainly expressing more her compassion to the dog than blaming you. And I felt you also understood her somehow... Thanks for sharing and hope to hear more of your interactions.

 

From: China 浙江(zhe jiang) 杭州(hang zhou ) @JohnAbbot Time : 2016-10-30 09:40:14 #13

@PaulFox1 - I am just curious as to why you mention "the divorce rate in China is so high" as if that supports your contentions about how bad the culture of China is as far as developing lasting relationships. The Chinese divorce rate is barely over half what it is in almost all Western Countries, including specifically the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, almost all of Europe, Russia and most of the former Soviet Union (some of which are not "Western Countries", I know).

It isn't easy to find the stats for any single year, but here is a summary that is stated to be for 2014. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-divorce-rates-around-the-world-2014-5

If you 're going to rely on divorce rates to support your argument then I suggest you'd better be arguing that the Chinese way of bringing people together for marriage is clearly superior to almost anywhere else in the world.

Just saying...

From: China 山东(shan dong) 济宁(ji ning ) @paulfox1 Time : 2016-10-30 09:54:29 #14


@JohnAbbot

I'm not sure that one could ever find out the 'true' divorce-rate in China. What I do see though, are many (and I mean MANY), Chinese women who rarely, if ever, are seen in public with their husband, rarely, if ever, even mention him in conversation, and rarely, if ever, discuss divorce.

I once met a girl who had been divorced for 7 years and no-one knew except her immediate family. Her friends didn't know and she was too scared to let her boss know because he would probably fire her, since her mind MUST be on finding a partner instead of her work.

 

I receive moan after moan from Chinese women who ARE prepared to talk about their husbands. I know of many married females who will happily chat with you on WeChat in the small hours - where are their husbands? I've also been at many social functions which have included married woman who will happily drink and dance the night away, again, no husband in sight.

They apprear to see 'divorce' as being come kind of Chinese cultural 'failure', and given that it's so common for married couples to work in different cities or provinces, it's an easy excuse to use if and when questioned. Just saying!

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