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John Abbot is co-owner of Married to a lovely Chinese Lady and living in China, John knows and respects China, Chinese Women, Chinese People and Chinese Culture. His blog will include good stuff about Online Dating, Chinese Women, International Relationships and Things Chinese. Join John Abbot on Google+
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Wading In on Western Scumbag Men vs Desperate Chinese Women (Part 2)    

By John Abbot
4954 Views | 4 Comments | 9/9/2011 7:49:11 PM

Being desperate does not mean being bad. Some of these Chinese women would be incredibly loyal to the man who marries them.

When is a Desperate Chinese Woman not Really so Desperate?

This is a continuation of a series of blogs. If you failed to read Part 1 - Wading In on Western Scumbag Men vs. Desperate Chinese Women - you might wish to do so, including the comments that have been made there by a number of readers. In addition, I had originally indicated that after this Part 2 there would be one more concluding blog (Part 3) in which I will try to explain the connect that I believe exists between so called Western Scumbag Men and so called Desperate Chinese Women. However, in rethinking this project after reviewing reader comments on Part 1 I now intend to have a Part 3, being about two more types of people who come into play on CLM, being “Desperate Western Men” and “Female Chinese Gold Diggers”, because I have recognized that the same connect (or a remarkably similar one) exists between those two groups as between the Scumbag Men and the Desperate Women. The conclusion will be Part 4 in which I’ll try to explain the connects as I see them and why they are important.

This article is considerably longer than Part 1 and certainly longer than I intended. I apologize if it bores everyone to tears.

In Part 1 I suggested that, while “Scumbag” may have many meanings in different contexts, on CLM the term “Scumbag” would seem to refer to any man who is seeking to have sex with every Chinese female he meets and I set out 5 types of men who seem, on the face of it, to possibly fit that simple definition but some of whom, in my opinion, are not deserving of the label after deeper scrutiny.

Now I’d like to address another category of certain members of CLM who have been labeled “Desperate Chinese Women”. First though, let’s be clear that just as we all know that most Western men on CLM (and presumably on other long term relationship Chinese dating sites) are not Scumbags but are men sincerely seeking a Chinese lifemate, so we should all recognize that not all Chinese women on CLM are desperate and most are simply single Chinese women who are interested in Western men because of certain cultural traits they find attractive in us, and who are therefore seeking a lifemate among us, but they are not doing so “in desperation”.

Scumbag men form a small subset of the total men on CLM. In my view from behind the scenes I’m quite confident that the number of men who can be properly labeled as “Scumbags” is less than 5% of the total male membership of CLM.

Desperate women form a subset of the total women members of CLM, but that subset is not, in my opinion, as small as the Scumbag men subset is of the total male membership. It is not easy to put a percentage to this, but my best guestimate would be that something in the range of 20% to 40% of the Chinese lady members are “desperate” to get married, and they are displaying that desperation in their interactions on CLM. In saying that I am defining “desperate women”, for purposes of using the term on CLM, as follows:

Desperate Chinese women are women who feel such intense pressure to get married immediately, whether that pressure comes from external forces or internal forces or a combination of both, that they are prepared to do things that they would otherwise not do because they find the doing of those things morally unacceptable. In short they will do things that they know are bad, that they know they should not do and that they would not do if they were not so desperate to achieve their goal of getting married.

For those of you who believe that such desperate Chinese women do not exist, or at least do not exist in large numbers, you are deluding yourself. At CLM we receive telephone calls and emails from such women daily, admitting they are desperate to marry, and telling us of the intense pressure they are under from parents, siblings and even friends to “find a husband”. They will ask us to help them. They will offer to pay as large amounts of money to help them. Sometimes they will beg us to help them. And for every woman who contacts us on her own behalf, there are as many more contacts made by mothers trying to pay us to find a husband for their daughter because a Grand Child is needed and she (the daughter) is starting to bring shame onto her parents by proving herself unworthy of finding a husband.

If you don’t believe me simply go chat with all the Chinese women you know and ask them. See how many will deny that this is a common occurrence for Chinese women, to be desperate to get married. Very few will deny it and many will quickly concur. I honestly cannot recall any Chinese woman over the age of 28 ever denying it in any conversation I’ve taken part of on the topic, and it’s a topic that comes up virtually every time anyone finds out that my wife and I run Not only does it come up, but it is invariably raised not by us, but by a Chinese woman, who will quickly respond how busy we must be because of the vast numbers of women in China who are “desperate to be married”. Often these women are married themselves, so they are not desperate themselves, but they inevitably have friends or relatives who are. I am supremely confident in my belief in this desperation of Chinese women to marry because so many Chinese women have confirmed it to me. You, dear reader, may not know that this quiet desperation to marry runs rampant through single Chinese womanhood over the age of the mid-twenties, but Chinese woman know it and they acknowledge it en masse.

Someone commented on Part 1 that Chinese men are equally pressured to get married and have children (or at least a child) but there are two dramatic differences regarding the men and the women:

1. The societal pressure on Chinese men includes an intense peer pressure to make sure that the woman is young (the better to successfully bear children), beautiful, and is as virginal as possible, which precludes divorcees and mothers from qualifying. Somehow widowhood is not so much a grounds for not marrying a Chinese woman as is divorce, as if upon the death of her husband a Chinese woman does a tricky u-turn back into the realm of near virginity. It is this particular peer pressure among Chinese men that makes it exceedingly difficult for them to find a Chinese wife that is acceptable, and equally, makes it nearly impossible for a Chinese woman who is not young (under 28 roughly) and beautiful, and especially one who has been previously married or has a child, to find a willing Chinese husband.

2. For many Chinese families, marriage of their daughter to a Western man only becomes acceptable when it has become clear that no Chinese man is ever going to accept her (in spite of their own best efforts to corral one for her), and they will finally relent if that is the only way to get the deal done. Marriage of a daughter to a foreigner brings less shame upon the family than does no marriage at all. Not so for the Chinese man. Marriage to a Western woman is never going to be acceptable to the family except in very rare cases of extremely open minded parents. Add to that that Western woman have not yet decided that Chinese men are desirable and that Chinese men are generally overwhelmed and frightened by the prospect of romance with a Western woman, as Western men are fast becoming, and the whole argument becomes moot as far as CLM is concerned. Look around CLM – the only Chinese men on CLM and similar dating sites are either young Chinese men seeking a fast track out of China at any cost, or offshore Chinese men who are more westernized in their thinking.

Unlike Part 1 on Scumbag Men I am now going to describe 3 types of Chinese women who I suggest clearly fall into the category of “desperate Chinese women”. As opposed to merely indicating whether I believe they are desperate Chinese women, this time I will clearly explain why I believe they are so. Again though, I am keen to know what you readers think and ask you to give us your thoughts on these three types of women (perhaps I should more properly say these three types of behavior of the women described).

Just before I do that, let me assure you that nobody on CLM is monitoring member profiles, messages or chats at all. We do not have remotely enough staff or time to do that even if we wanted to. We actually try very hard not to intrude on members’ privacy and we only check into a member’s chats or messages when we have received a complaint about that member’s messages or chat conversations specifically, or when we are investigating a possible Scammer who has been in contact with a specific member and we need to know what the Scammer said to them. The following descriptions are based solely on the results of those types of investigations and not on any random or general monitoring of member accounts.

Finally, do not think that I believe that “desperate Chinese women” are necessarily “bad” Chinese women. In fact, I am inclined to believe that for the most part they are not “bad” women at all. They perform what many would agree are “bad” acts, but they do so not because they are bad people but because they are “desperate”. "Desperate times call for desperate measures", so he saying goes, and likewise perhaps one can say desperate people perform desperate acts. An inherently good person may well perform bad acts out of desperation. In fact it is the very performing of the bad acts that leads us to conclude that the person performing them must have been desperate.

Woman #1: This woman has initially sent kisses or messages to hundreds, if not thousands, of male members in a very broad age range, without regard to their appearance or even whether or not they have posted a photo, and once she receives a response from anyone, within one or two messages or chats she has already began to talk about marriage and when can he come to China to meet her. She will often try to get away with having multiple memberships so she can accumulate ever more targets, with whom she will act as if she is deeply in love and each of them is her one and only true love. She will frequently have 10 or more men on the line who believe she is “true” to them, but will just the same demand that they contact nobody else, and she will frequently insist they cancel their membership even though she is very actively using hers. She is very clearly not going to let anyone out of her grasp until someone has been to China, met her and married her, at which point she will dump all the others like a bad rash. When men do attend China to meet her she will always go to bed with each one of them, not because she wants to, but because she is afraid to lose any possible prospect by refusing to give herself to him. It is unlikely anyone would doubt that this is a desperate Chinese woman. My reasons for suggesting this are basically set out in the following descriptions of Women #2 and #3.

Woman #2: She also keeps a harem of men in her cyber stable, jealously clutching onto each one as if he is her personal property and insisting at all times that they get off of the CLM website while she will continue to roam it freely. Like #1, the age, character and appearance of the men is of little importance, but his economic situation may well come into play. However, she differs from #1 in that this woman is not going to bed with anyone until the marriage has been secured and the knot has been tied. She knows the value of her goods and isn’t going to be giving them away. In my opinion this woman, like #1, is clearly “desperate” to be willing to lie to so many men in order to keep them in the corral of potential husbands, because to pursue one man after another, or even worse, large groups of men at one time, for the purpose of culling a victim out of the herd to become prey to her need for a husband, flies in the face of traditional Chinese teaching that women are to be virtuous and honest. Traditionally in China, promising to marry someone, or telling them you love them, is tantamount to a “sacred vow”, so how could a Chinese woman promise a chain of men that she intends to marry each of them, thereby breaking her sacred vow repeatedly, if she was not desperate. If you promise 10 men at once that you will marry them, then you are clearly lying to 9 of them, and I suggest to you that if you were to poll all Chinese women as to the acceptability of lying to men by promising to marry them while knowing that you would not be doing so you would get a resounding and near unanimous confirmation that it is not acceptable, even from those who are doing it.

Woman #3: Like #1 and #2, she does maintain a long list of potential mates, juggling them with great effort, but unlike the previous two she does not jealously demand that each of them remain interested only in her and relentlessly police their activity on CLM to ensure their obedience. She simply acknowledges that she has many “friends” on CLM but is only interested in one of them as a potential mate. Unfortunately she leaves each of her “friends” to understand they he is that “one”, while intending to meet as many of them as possible with the intent to marry the first one that offers, regardless of which one it is. And in the process of meeting them she willingly has sex with each one under the misguided belief that to not do so risks losing that individual’s desire to marry her. To be clear she is not having sex with multiple partners because she enjoys doing so, rather she’s having sex with multiple partners in spite of the fact that she does not enjoy doing so, out of fear that if she doesn’t do this, then in each case she risks losing an opportunity to marry. In the course of bedding these multiple partners she of course deludes each one of them into believing that he alone has won her heart, and therefore her body.

Woman #4: Unlike the other 3 woman described above, this woman does not keep a gang of men on the hook, she just instantly declares her love for one after another, until someone declares it back and then she is hooked. Regardless of the suitability of the man for her, she loves him simply because he has said he loves her and he has given her hope. No matter how many men in a row declare their love and then tear her heart out, she just keeps coming back and repeating the process. This will usually include occasional visits in China by some of these men, and this woman too will give herself to them, in each case not wishing to offend them and lose them. This, I believe, is the category of desperate woman that Bren is hearing from and has been blogging about in Are Chinese Women So Desperate? , because this is the type of woman who is going to contact him after having her heart broken so many times. The others might contact Bren and present themselves as being this type of desperate woman, because no Chinese woman is going to tell anyone about the multiple wrong things they are doing, such as lying to so many men, or being promiscuous with so many men. So Bren will be receiving reports from this type of desperate woman, or one of the other types, but in all cases they will certainly be downplaying the numbers of men they’ve been involved with.

In her recent blog, What is the Real Chinese Woman? , which I heartily recommend, YayaLiu tells us that one of the core underpinnings of what it is to be a “Real Chinese Woman” is to believe in devoutly and to practice “loyalty, rejection of promiscuity, honesty ,trust” and I have always understood this to be true. So how could such a woman resort to such lying to and having sex with multiple men whom she considers to possibly represent her future husband? Quite obviously she must be “desperate”. The compelling need to be married has overcome her very core moral principles and beliefs. Her need to be married has outweighed her need and desire to be a “real Chinese woman”. If that is not an example of acting out of desperation I’m not sure what is.

Finally, I want to point out (again) that while true Scumbags are inherently bad people (more on that in Conclusions), desperate Chinese women are not inherently “bad” and most are probably inherently good people who are performing bad acts as a result of a compelling need to satisfy the cultural demands foisted upon them. To be a Scumbag s to be a bad person, but to be a desperate Chinese woman is simply to be desperate. Many of these same Chinese women, when finally married, will revert to their good selves and may be the best wife a man could ask for. They may well be fine examples of the Real Chinese Women YayaLiu wrote of, for once they are married the desperation is gone. Sadly, they will have some secrets to carry with them the rest of their lives.

As stated, next blog I will discuss the two other categories of people who come into play, “Desperate Western Men” and “Female Chinese Gold Diggers”. Then I will finally move on to conclusions as to the connects between these 4 types of people.

Copyright owned jointly by Author and CyberCupid Co., Ltd. Breach of copyright will be prosecuted.
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#2011-09-12 14:57:32 by LetsspeakGuoYu @LetsspeakGuoYu

Thank you for this delightful insight. I only make $9.90/hour & am paid for 8 hours a week. So I can NOT afford to pay for CLM.... YET !
You're talking about desperate Chinese women. Well, I'm a desperate Chinese MAN. Why ? Because I'm looking for a woman ( ANY woman. She does NOT have to be Chinese ) who can speak, understand, read, & write Mandarin Chinese at least as well as a high school graduate from Taiwan, Hong Kong, or the rest of China. The problem is I have two opposing restrictions. The woman MUST be Christian because the Bible says I should NOT marry a NON-Christian because we would be "unequally yoked" . But ironically, she must ALSO have a high sexual drive because I do. Finding someone with all THREE of the qualities above is difficult without PAYing for the website. So I keep looking for this wife & looking.

#2011-09-13 03:41:58 by thedragonb1 @thedragonb1

To LetsspeakGuoYu,

Aiyaaaaaah, dude! C'mon too much information! I know Chinese men are usually straight forward and direct with your desires and needs, but this is what will make a woman run the hell away from you. You got to keep certain things to yourself. Try not to be so open and honest with sensative subject publicly.

Subtle is the key! Do not share such things with women to easily. To look for a Christian woman is one thing but to ask for a Christian woman with a HIGH SEX DRIVE?! C'mon, man, that's just pushing it. Although all men want a "Lady in the street but a FREAK in the sheets!". But you got to slow your roll. You are ruining any chance of you getting a woman at all. Especially a Christian woman. You may want to start out with just finding a good Christian woman who is Chinese. And later as you grow together getting to know each other, you can gently ask her feelings of sex. Share your strong opinions to easily will assuredly drive a woman away. It's rare to find a woman wants a horny-ass man. Because they all think we are horny! Haaha! But there are women that are highly sexually open yet I've ever bumped into one that was Christian and deep in the church. I am sure there are many Christian women willing to share loving moments with her husband. But 2 to 3 times a day as you come off sounding may be extreme.

So what do you do? SACRIFICE! That's a part of your religion too. You can't have everything you desire!!! Chinese and Christian a much easier task. If she loves you the sex will happen naturally, but if it's over the top and kinky (as you do come off sounding), maybe you need to start praying about this lustful nature inside you. For real, my man..

I just finished watching the "Sex and Zen" movie... and if there's any truth to that story...too much sex can possibly kill a man!!! Haaahaa! Good luck, GuoYu!

#2011-10-20 13:23:18 by lm830 @lm830

Hi,Friends, first I to you and your "China's wife" best wishes.
My English ability is very poor, but I am very likes to go to your blog.
Can say for certain, your description is involved in the Chinese woman to make friends of 95% or more. But, I was not there.
I sincerely hope that we can become the friend.
Wish you and your wife will be happy forever.


#2012-10-28 18:39:39 by papaya1972 @papaya1972

Hi John,

Where is `part 3" ?not able to find it.
Very interesting articals and have to admit quite true too.

There is "desperate housewives" in US, may be someone could consider about "desperate marriage seeker" for TV episodes (may be with some better title), could be popular.
Hope I am not that desperate. lol

(Showing 1 to 4 of 4) 1
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