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Lily, originally from Sichuan province (home of spicy food), has lived in Zhejiang province since 2007. She has over 10 years of work experience in international companies in Shenzhen, using English daily; thus having a relatively good command of English. An honest, caring, communicative, appreciative and positive person, Lily enjoys reading, thinking, learning, listening music, nature & dogs. Continuous learning and self-improvement is her life-time goal. She will blog about: keeping a positive outlook on people, things and life; the importance of maintaining good-balance in all aspects of life; Know yourself and what you want before searching for and finding the one most suitable for you. Lily hopes to share her knowledge with others while also learning from them.
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Say Goodbye to My Sweden Love    

By Lily
8118 Views | 25 Comments | 7/16/2014 7:18:47 AM

I incidently got to know some man from Sweden at end of April and we have been seriously communicating since that time. We agreed we both are serious, honest and keeping promise type person.He has been working a famous international company for about 27 years and I think he should be patient and tolerant person from that point.He is a little humorous and I even can't immediately realize his little humor when he release now and then. Actually I like that way since I am always too serious on all thing and people. I hope I can learn from him on this point.



He mentioned times that he really like me and finally said to me he love me at end of Jun actually he confessed me that he has already immediately been falling loved in me since first see my photo on the website. I accept it is not easily for a western man to say " I love you" to a Chinese woman within 2 months....



He is with a little cold/serious face but seems not so bad inside and also as he mentioned. I actually more like the one of him in the video that he is a little shy, nervous but much younger and energy than his age or his photos sent to me. I began to a little more love him from that time and expect to meet him soon in person so that feel if we could have a good match each other (I thought we have already known much each other through typing communications). During the past 2 months, I have given him up or the intention to go on for total 3 times as followings:-



1. About 15 days of online communication after we met on the website, I said to him that we are not suitable for each other since I felt he is a incommunicative (little on speaking, expressing or reaction), a little self-concentered and less caring person.



During my conversation, I will naturally mention my families like my father, sisters, son and my ex-husband.There can feel all kinds of my emotions to them like loving, caring, missing and appreciation. He seldome mention and he even can't mention any aspects except she like sewing on advantages of his ex-wife after have been living together for over 20 years when I try to ask. When I try to tell him how I am thinking and some of my thoughts (maybe too much words or nagging for him), he reply a little slowly and with little word or just one simply sentence.



That always make me very boring, tired, confused and frustrated each time. This is some feeling like our saying "playing lute to a cow". Some days ago, he said to me that most of the Swedish people don't talk much and I also concluded that most of the technical person doesn't do good on speaking and expressing themselves.



After reading my giving up, he tried to make a written explanation that he is not a incommunicative and less caring person. He would like to listen at least and he has a good relationship with his children indeed. He don't need talk much on his ex-wife since she is already the past. He told me he used not like much to explain himself in words except a face-to-face communication but he do hope can have a chance to meet me in person in the future and then he would like to make an exception for me to prepare a written explanation. He also asked me don't give up easily and make a conclusion too early or too quickly. I agree with him on this point. I felt his honest and sincerity and I thought I maybe too sensitive or a little subjective. We resume our routing communications.



2. In the next stage, he showed a little curiosity and interest in my living house although I have told this house is for my ex-husband already, my income and show big expectation on my ability so that mentioned times that need me to take care of him. I heard from some Chinese sisters that some of the old western man hope to find some young and rich Chinese woman and let her to take care of him. Some of the man is with this or that kind of disease or in bad financial condition. Basing on all these, much of confusion arose in my mind, I tried to clarify with him but seems he would not like to much face my questions and give a immediately clarification on all of my confusion.



I said I can't step further until I have figured out all the confusion but he said he has nothing to say... What he trying to focus on is not my personalities, the compatibility and our happy communication or feelings and more on income, house and taking care of him instead. What this says? This seems not a correct consideration way on a relationship. Besides, as per my experience, if you pay much on other aspects like working ability, financial conditions and instead of original love feeling, personality compatibility and mutual appreciation, the relationship or marriage will be doomed to fail in the end... I told him but he did not say anything. All of my confusions can't be further explained or clarified.



I switch off the YM for some days. He shown on the Chinese dating site some days later and hope to get conversation with me. He promise me he really has nothing to explain and just make a joke that hope I am a superwoman so that can take care of him and hope I can believe in him. He said will try to explain and I told him to send me a written mail instead of online message. I did not receive any mail from him after several days waiting and he also closed his data on that dating website. He first time did not keep his promise that send me a written explanation mail. I am a little disappointed and also curious on what make he did not keep his promise for the 1st time.



I open the YM and send him a online message to ask why he did not keep his promise to send me mail. He said he is still thinking and will try to finish within today. I soon received his explanation mail with short sentences. He is just a little curious on what the Chinese house looks like, he did not say "will take care of me" is due to he think that means responsibility until meet me in person and he can't lie me on that. Yes, I am also a responsible person and I can agree with this point but why you have times reminded me to confirm "I take care of you" before you are ready for that? This is obvious an unreasonable expectation or an excuse, right?



In China, we usually expect we woman can find some strong man who we can count on and who would like to take care of us although we also need and would like to do the same to him. So the opposite expectation from a man to a woman made me feel very weird and naturally thought he has more expectation from others to do something for him before he is ready to do the same? Is he a selfish or self-centered person?



A big question mark immediately arose in my head. I sent back him a mail to confirm we had better end up our relationship since we are really not suitable for each other and thanks for his accompany all the days at the same time. He sent an online message with one word "Failed?", I did not answer him and we did not contact each other in the following days. I felt bad and this is not what I have been expecting to happen...



I have been thinking if I am too subjective and arbitrary? If I have been thinking in my Chinese way and ignoring his thinking way or culture? He is from Sweden there the woman often have good working ability and thus the man will have good working ability and income expectation from the woman? Is that normal in his thinking way or in his country and no any special? He worry about I will leave him when he is old (he is 17 years older than me) or have doubt on if I am just attracted by his money or his country and then he times remind "I take care of him"?



To avoid to miss the right man for me, I initiatively sent him a online message and make a apology to him. I would like to allow us more time to understand each other. In the following, we generally have a good communication and everything went smoothly. I am comparatively more patient and steady than previous. We both felt satisfied enough each other and he thought this is the right way we need go to until the 3rd time giving up.



3. We began to miss the other side a little much and hope to see the other side soon. I told him I can't sleep well since I am not sure what will be about us and when we can meet in person. I am a little depressed and seems can't see a hope about our future. Hope is very important for me to feel in this life. He said I make him happy and he hopes do the same to me. He promise will meet me. He have been tried to apply could be assigned to work in China but failed. He will try again in the followings. 



I immediately realized he did have been trying to do something good to promote our relationship but just did not tell me. He care about me and should be a good man on real action instead of words... I was a little affected... In the following, he suddenly checked with google map on my location and all around hotels. I know he began to make a real move that on a intention or plan to meet with me in China.



Some problems happened during our communications on meeting solutions, gift and hotel booking issues. When I said I want to buy some gift for his son,daughter and mum (his real birth mum's sister indeed), he show much less interest/attention than to his children when check with him if that gift’s color is suitable for his mum or not. Besides, he did not say any thanks to me on when I talked this intention to him. I felt a little disappointed indeed...



In my mind, I take the appreciation to "loving, caring and breeding from parents to child" as a very important emotion from a person. Am I not deserved a "thanks" on buying something for his children and is his mum not worthy to be appreciated by him that would like to accept him as a son and breed up him? In the next, he proposed a quicker solution for our meeting that if I can flight to Dubai to meet him there (he was working there). He gave the solution but did not mention the real important point that is who will pay for all expense including the flights like he or me or we both share.



For my understanding, only present the problem and no solution from you, means you are not for a responsible person. At least I did not feel his sincerity on that proposal. Has he been thinking I am a rich woman that should can pay for all cost on flight to meet him in Dubai? Or is this his expectation to me in his mind? I am feel a little disappointed again.



As per experience from some of successful Chinese woman with western man. Almost all 1st meeting is in China and the man will pay most of the cost especial on hotel (some of them will book two rooms for respect to the woman when they don’t confirm on this point), when has to meet in the man's place, the man will pay all expense including flights. When I told him this, he confirmed it is no problem for him and he will pay everything but I don't like the forced intention. So bad feeling was still in my head.



I gave up this solution in the end and still insist the best 1st meeting place should be located in China instead of any other places far away from my country and my place. He agreed the most easily way is he come China to meet me. We both confirmed Shanghai is our meeting place. He mentioned me the hotel suite fee and commented the bed is very soft and comfortable to sleep. He seems intend to tell me we will sleep together but I said if that suite is with two room/beds that will be great.



He did not response much and then I said I will book my hotel and we can meet in some place. He said it is no problem and I can choose any way I think is the most comfortable way I feel and he will pay everything. I was expecting he will say "I respect you and I will book 2 rooms for us" but he did not. Actually if I book my own hotel, I will not absolutely book the same hotel as him and he actually don't need pay although he said he will. Seems he knew well which way is best or most economical way for him??? I am very sure if I did not tell the meeting rule previously, he will never mention he will pay on all my expense during we talking about the hotel booking.



On this point, I checked from internet and see two articles (one is from a Chinese woman who shared her experience with her France boyfriend and opinions on which kind of man is not good). They both said if the man would not like to or don’t have any intention to pay for you, you had better give up this kind of man since money means much more than you in his mind. There should be some reasons and real experience from these articles. I agree with this point and I am very sure that I am not a greedy woman and just hope to see his intention on caring, respect and love to me. I once again confirmed I am no more important for me as compared with the money. The hotel booking was suspended.



Before our meeting, I still hope to figure out the most important points that what is the reasons on his divorce that they both side mentioned from the other side (I have tried ask but he said will answer me in later time), what are his expectation from me on his partner or wife. He told children's growing up and departure make them to be with less love, talk, drift away each other and both easily give up in the end. This seems is out of my questions point, did he try to hide some thing or real aspects to me?



He hope I can continuously work when in Sweden otherwise I will feel boring. Yes, I accept we will feel boring if nothing to do. But actually he more hope I can work and make some money for the family. Finally he asked me a question that he have ever tried to ask but I did not answer. What is my income? I told him my income. He commented it is very good for him. But I said my income is not stead. I may can't keep my current work when in Sweden but I will try to learn Swedish or other skill and adapt there as quick as possible. I hope he can overall consider this and prepare for the possible worst result.



He did not say to me "don't need worry, I will help you and take care of you" as per my expectation. He said I don't worry about that since you are a skilled and very intelligent woman. Yes, it is true maybe but that is not I expect to hear from him. In the later time, I told him my expectation to him that I hope he can be more patient and tolerant to me that can love, care about me and do anything for me basing on his true love in heart. I do have that expectation from a age gap man.



He seems a little busy on the other side and give little response except a simple sentence of “ that is no problem for me”. I was actually not happy with his slow (passive) response and very simple answer. I more hope hear his thinking and thoughts on all my concerned points. I hope he would like to share with me on those also. Maybe he was busy with sending mails (as he mentioned in the later time) or something like such as in a bad mood but he can honestly tell me and suggest we discuss in later or next time. Maybe I expect he can understand me and make a little adaption to me but seems it did not work.



I was unhappy and very frustrated again with this kind of communication with him once again. I realized that I can’t bear this kind of communication way or this type of person any more. We are not suitable each other. I did not say good night to him like usual that day. The next day, he say hello to me on YM and asked why I was so quiet today and if there is anything wrong. I confirmed I already talked too much on myself previously and I felt a little tired. I felt boring and very frustrated from the always same communication way between us. I talked a lot but he just released little words or one or two sentence now and then like” it is no problem for me”.



Right now, I began to realize that the man especial the technical person used not talk much except some “Yes” or “No” or come conclusion or decision sentence. They seldom will share their thinking or thought or they do these parts in their own mind. This maybe nothing wrong with their characters but I just can’t bear only if I would like to completely understand/accept or can adapt myself to their way. I am sure I am not ready enough for that yet although I may need to balance.



Or maybe I should have already controlled the situation a little more better so that not nagging too much when feel he did not react much? We did not contact each other for the following 2 days and yesterday he suddenly shown to be offline on YM but on the Skype. YM is our usual daily communication way. I knew he has finally made his decision to give up our relationship and it is the right time for me to firmly say good-bye for my Sweden “love”. I did not have good sleep these nights neither.



It is not easily to make some initiative decision and keep the faith. I have been trying hard to figure out what I should have learned from this experience & shorter relationship?



From this experience, I began realize that successful international marriage is very difficult to achieve that each of us should be well aware of this and do more preparation before entering. There are many potential difficulties and barriers like language, different thinking & communication way, personalities, view of life, culture, expectation and etc. Self-enjoyment and devotion person probably can’t have good match in the real life.



Try to be generous to people at least for families or the important one including your lover. Try to understand and accept there are different people in the world and they think, speak and behave in their own way which probably is completely different or opposite as yours. You must face and accept this truth no matter if you would like to or not. It is nothing wrong with the person himself/herself.



If the other side would not like or has intention to make change or adjustment, you still would like to or can first and initiatively do that for a better communication and feeling. When difference or conflict occurs, there is always some side would like to make compromise and adjustment. For a relationship from different country and culture, don’t make too quick decision or confirmation or conclusion before meeting in person for one or more times.



Ok, past is already past and I have to step ahead by myself starting from today. We learn from books and both ours and others’ experience. We are growing up at this or that kind of cost. I wrote this article in memory of my Sweden “love” and I know I need continuously improve myself and prepare much for my next international relationship…. Let me bless myself that can do a better job in the next turn…


Copyright owned jointly by Author and CyberCupid Co., Ltd. Breach of copyright will be prosecuted.
Comments
(Showing 1 to 10 of 25) 1 2 3 More...
#2014-07-16 05:48:42 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

@Lily - this is another great post. You are very obviously a deep thinking and analytical person, and while I appreciate how much thought you have put into this blog and to the events that resulted in your writing it, it caused me to do some analysis of my own.

I wrote such a long comment in response that I decided to post it as a blog of my own, because it was too long for a comment. Anyone interested can read my thoughts on some of Lily's thoughts at http://blog.chinalovematch.net/blog/article/Is-it-Possible-to-Over-Analyze-a-Cross-Cultural-Relationship.

#2014-07-16 09:55:05 by cloudjockey @cloudjockey

Hi Lily,

Nice article, I enjoyed it. You are very correct in that a Chinese and western relationship can be very difficult. There are any reasons for this and some are beyond our control.

The obvious ones are language difficulties, different culture and customs, expectations but also I am seeing that online dating itself is becoming more complicated thanks to scammers and bad people.

The language difficulty is the most obvious, because if you cannot communicate your thoughts in a way the other person can understand then it is hard to be sure both people understand. Language can be learned and even with minimal skill in each other's language good communication is still possible. I have learned from experience that spending a lot of time together helps to understand each other even without proper language. You just develop a feel for each other. It works very well for day to day life but not so well for difficult subjects.

Culture and customs are also problem areas. The Chines way is often different from the western way so issues and problems are always common. Both people need to try to understand that their way is not always the best way and that patience and compassion are vital. When in doubt wait 24 hours and talk about it again. This can save a lot of trouble and bad feelings later.

Expectations are another issue. When I first came to China in 2009 to meet a lady I expected to pay for everything and she also expected this. Usually I would go to the bank machine withdraw money and give it to her. Then she could take care of all the things we needed to do like buying tickets etc without having to always ask for money. Sadly that relationship did not last. So I understand that the expectation is that the man pays. There is the problem that many Chinese people think all foreigners are rich because we can travel and seem to be able to afford things here in China easily. Lets not forget though that many western men save up and use their vacation pay to travel to China to meet their lady so yes they have money to spend but it may have taken a long time to save it up for the trip.

So for ladies to expect the man to pay is valid to a point but they should also practice restraint and help with the expenses. Men do not want a lady who constantly spends money, and ladies I am sure do not want a man who is also careless with money. The man should pay for the flight and hotel of course but the lady can show appreciation and understanding by paying for meals and tickets sometimes.

Now also with online dating there is the scammer influence. It is difficult sometimes to know if the lady loves the man for who he is or only for what he can give her or take her to his country. This is a big issue for us. ALso the lady wants to know the man is serious and can provide a safe and secure future for her if they live in his country. Suddenly she is separated from her family and friends, living in a country where she may not speak the language, may not understand the culture and customs and also has no friends. If the man is working she may be left at home alone for a long time each day and this is hard for her. Loneliness and sadness soon follow.

For me personally, I think it doesn't matter if one is a technical person, a very social person or somewhere in between. Communication and trust are the two most important things in a relationship, even more important than love. Without those two things the relationship cannot grow and develop. It takes two people to build a relationship. Both must overcome their natural shyness, or unwillingness to speak or chat or communicate, especially a long distance relationship. If the person you are trying to build a relationship with does not want to talk, only answers in short sentences, does not share about themselves and their family and their life, then I would say it is time to move on. How can you develop a relationship to the point of love and marriage if you know nothing about the other person and they are unwilling to open up to you? Communication and trust, both are what relationships are built on. Love comes later.

SO as you can see from my long response I have had experiences similar to you and have had some bad luck as well. I have learned about communication and how vital it is. The most important things are trust, honesty, and communication. Use natural recent pictures, not professional ones from ten or twenty years ago. Tell the truth about everything, good and bad, and sooner or later you will find the right person for you.

Anyway Lily, thanks for the great article, I wish you luck in your search.

#2014-07-16 12:55:24 by YinTingYu @YinTingYu

@ Lily
Hello Lily,
This is my first time to respond.
Your post was so good.
So many questions you present.
I want to try to answer but only,...from my perspective,...OK ??
OK.
1. Two months time is way too short to a time to make accurate assessment of other person on internet unless,... one can see immediately they are "scammer".
2.The six "Swedish" people I have met have been very "closed mouthed".
Takes time for them to "open up". Is their culture. Many are like this outside of Sweden also.
3. You know we must all Expand Beyond our "mindsets and boundaries" to give time for a cross cultural relationship to develop.
Is my experience (can be most beautiful).
Perhaps you are too much wanting a relationship??
Ah,...relax dear and remember you are perfectly fine within your own self.
(may take a little getting used to)....
OK,...I speak almost enough,...I wish to copy and paste something to you I have written on Garreth's blog to make easier access....

Look very deep within yourself first.

When it comes to choice of " life partner" for a man or woman,...for it to really work out good for rest of days,....both must understand and agree that there are many different kinds of love/attraction.

Each must know themselves on a very deep level.
There are many different kinds of love.
One cannot truly love another until one has love for self,... unconditional!!
I remind all of Erich Fromm's short book, "The Art Of Loving".
I really feel he was correct.

He states basic love types following:
1. Brotherly love.
2. Motherly love.
3. Erotic love.
4. Self love
5. Love of God (however one perceives).
Ah,...there is more with combinations of all.

Next I wish to share discoveries about the "Couples journey".

Is taken from Susan Campbell's conclusions.
Many years of research observed (25+years over 300 couples).

Is from book titled: "The Couples Journey".
Author: Susan Campbell

1. Romantic Stage.
2. Power Struggle.
3. Owning Projections And Accepting Responsibility.
4. Plateau Intimacy.

I type for all a condensed version of what the author says.

1. Romantic Stage:
Each couple has been in love with each other.
There is a fusion of psychological boundary's.
Couple feels excited and powerful as though all can be conquered together.

2. Power Struggle:
Individual boundary's return.
Fusion of differences is slight or great.
Each person's family of origin "rules" (conditioning) come into play producing disagreements.
Feelings about money, sex, sickness, socializing, celebrating, household maintenance, possible parenting, etc...have to be re-negotiated.
The couple really comes to know and understand each others' differences.
A stable period of calm routine returns.
Maybe takes 10 years time,...maybe less.

3. Owning Projections And Accepting Personal Responsibility:
Individual soul searching journey of personal responsibility and quest for ultimate meaning.
Each partner "owns" their male and female projections.
Men find their "feminine" side.
Women find their "masculine" side.
Discovery of generative needs for self-actualization.
Each partner becomes more and more complete!!

4. Plateau Intimacy:
Partners become complete within themselves.
New bond established based on desire, choice, and decision rather than,.... "Fantasy Bonding "out of neediness.
Each gives truly to the other because they really want to.
Some qualities of romance return but,... with more friendship, respect, and appreciation of each other.

"The journey towards intimacy is marked by the following: excited romance, healthy conflict, learning to negotiate fairly; patience, hard work, and the courage to risk discovering and being an individual. Above all, it is marked by a willingness of each partner to embrace a "disciplined love".

"Achieving love and intimacy in a relationship is a dynamic process,...it ebbs and flows with certain times of disagreement, agreement, and individuation".

I think this is good for all to remember and assess.

Also,... I recommend to all the Carl Jung, Isabel Meyers, David Keirsey "test" from the book,..."Please Understand Me".
I feel this is better than astrology or enneagram because it gives the chance to observe how a person feels at the time,.....feelings and sentiments may change !!
Is only a 70 or 72 question and answer format (Yes or No).
Has helped me with assessing a "ground zero' base to start from with others.

It is just a part of our living in the mystery of each moment.

OK,... I've said enough for now.
Peace and Blessing
Ying Ting Yu,...aka. Gongji
:)

#2014-07-16 13:07:57 by Belle77 @Belle77

Hi Lily, i think your first feeling about this Swedish man is right, he is looking for a rich Chinese lady, you don't have to be confused from time to time, this is not something about different culture. If you also dated with Chinese men before, i think you are also aware of the fact that many Chinese men are also looking for rich women or women with rich or powerful family background.

I think this man originally looks for rich woman with similar age, but then he found that many young ladies, who are 20 or 30 years younger than him, approach him by different reasons, then this man would think wow, i may find a not just rich but much young girl!

I also encountered some men who want rich women, I just deleted them, I can depend on myself well and i don't expect to find a rich man, I just want to find the right man for me, and hopefully to spend the rest of my life with him, so i care more on the personality of this man, but lets say, I can understand those men who are after rich women, it is like many girls wish to have rich men to spoil them. The very popular internet novels at present here in China, are those fancy stories about little girl has one or two very rich, young and handsome boss who love her and spoil her unconditionally

"I told him my expectation to him that I hope he can be more patient and tolerant to me that can love, care about me and do anything for me basing on his true love in heart. I do have that expectation from a age gap man."

I understand you hope that because he is 17 years older than you, so you expected more from him, but how about his original intention is to find a rich woman?

Actually the nature of man are universally the same, sometimes when you feel uncomfortable with this man, your direct feeling is right, you don't really have to find excuses such as cultural differences for western man, cause there are good men and bad men everywhere in the world, and the same, there are good women and bad women all around the world.

Good luck to you Lily, don't rush, you will find the right man for you soon.

#2014-07-16 13:17:15 by Barry1 @Barry1

@zqy2014

I'm currently involved in a cross cultural relationship and so I found your words very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write everything down so comprehensively.

Congratulations also on your English ability. I really do admire multilingual people. It shows not only that they are quite intelligent to be able to learn the new language, but also are hard working and industrious as well. Admirable qualities.

I think @cloudjockey gave some very good comments to you here as well. Well worth reading from a man's perspective and I agree with just about everything that was stated.

In my case, I spoke for about seven or eight months on the QQ message service with my Chinese lady friend before finally meeting in China. During these many months, NOT ONCE did she or I ever say to each other, "I love you".

I believe that before genuine love can be felt, the people involved MUST at least meet each other face to face and spend several weeks with each other, learning if they are truly compatible. It's my personal view that if someone says, "I love you" to another person before having actually met them, this is premature. What they really mean in my opinion is, "I like you a lot".

True love is like a fine wine. It takes time to be cultivated, captivated and matured. Any expressions of love made prior to this process occurring are either illusory, superficial or perhaps hopeful feelings only, in my view. Maybe they're HOPING that love will exist upon meeting, but cannot be certain of it.

I have many other thoughts that could be said in relation to your comments, but most of these have been - or will be - expressed in my current series of blog articles entitled, "My China Trip".

I sincerely wish you well, Lily. You no doubt are a smart, thinking person with a lot to share with any man lucky enough to catch you. Well done indeed! (y)

#2014-07-16 17:23:54 by zqy2014 @zqy2014

@cloudjockey

Thanks for you to carefully read my blog and share with us on your similar experience.

Yes, language is a very first difficulty of the both face. I really can't imagine how hard especial at the beginning for the two if they don't have a common language to communicate.How big one heart, patience and tolerance they will need to be with each other!!! I really admire those couples who have been made a successful on their cross culture relationship and marriage even if they don't have a common communicative language at first stage.

As suggested, misunderstanding is always possible and common for two people from different country and culture.This is very natural and we need prepare enough on that in mind.When misunderstanding, confusion or conflicts arise, we need suspend it to be further discussed or communicated in later time like the suggested 24 hours later. I absolutely need to learn and try this way in the next communications, thanks for suggestion!

As for expectation, it actually can't be for real intention in mind. As mentioned in my previous comments to my own blog related the family financial issue, although we may will have that expectation in our mind, we would not take the other side's generous as for a granted and don't have any appreciation on that either.Actually I have suggested the best and most economic way for him on our 1st meeting is he try to apply to work in China and we meet at that time even times.The truth is most of Chinese women are very appreciated.We would be greatly appreciated on all things the other side done for us and would like to pay on meals,some inland tickets or anything can do back to show our appreciation.We well understand every cent is contained with his sweat and effort no matter how rich he is. Come to China to meet with us do need a lot money and we should try to do all homework on our side so that the meeting/vocation can be happy,worthy and ultimately enjoyable. We normally need think and figure out which place is the best to meet, any special local food restaurants there, some special scenery spots, what kind of gift will be suitable to bring back...

Yes, the scammer make it is more and more difficult to figure out the sincerity & purpose of both searching. On this point, I will post my 3rd blog related how to preliminarily judge if there is a scamming risk during the first stages of communications.As per my understanding, the scamming is comparatively easily than the purpose to tell apart. I think it is important for us to feel what is the highlighted points the other side has been paying attention to during the communications even if he/she is serious on the relationship or marriage.For example, some would pay more on money, working ability, financial condition,house; Some would pay more on his/her country; Some would pay more on his/her personalities; Some would pay more if there is a true love existed between the two... No matter which is his/her emphasis, there must be his/her reasons and we can be aware to understand or not, accept or not..We should not simply definite or blame them to be scammer or something like that. Each of us has different background and learn from the past or previous experience.They would have this or that requirements or potential expectation, all these are very natural for me to feel.

For talking, yes, as mentioned in John's another comment, it is a fact that man does has less talking as woman does..We woman need have a total awareness on this point and should pay close attention on the right talking pace.Like when we did not see much response from the other side, we should temporarily suspend our talking until received response. We need to be sensitive on the right communication pace and make all necessary adjustment on our side.We say and behave always as according to the current surroundings instead of freely from our own intention..We can't act like talk to ourselves.That way will make the communication to be with more sense I think.

The last, as mentioned, honest is always the most important foundation on a successful relationship and marriage.The honest means latest photos,complete personal information,true situations and a clear purpose included in the profile.Besides, mutual trust and always would like to openly/timely/positively communicate.

Thanks again for you to take much of you time to share with us and present your suggestion! Hope you could enjoy your living, work in Beijing and luck on your searching..Even if we are still living alone but we need try to do well all things on hand and enjoy every moment that we have...

Lily

#2014-07-16 20:55:11 by Jaguarguy @Jaguarguy

Lily,

I could write a response as long as your post having dealt with this on a couple of occasions while finding my wife here. Different personalities are one of the biggest cross culture problems I think. Technical people tend to be very quiet and short on words but in your situation I think there were other factors. Some of the things you mentioned which would be normal relationship conversation would have been, as we call it in the US, red flags. A red flag is something that just doesn't seem right. In this case its his not wanting to talk about his family. I personally did some checking into Chinese culture before every looking for an Asian bride so I could understand there thinking better.

I learned about how important family is, how in some cases even meeting the greatest woman might not matter if there parents don't accept you. This point is very important so in my conversations with the women I met here before marrying I was always very open about my past, my children and my intentions. To me is seems he really didn't care about sharing this and this tells me he most likely doesn't know or understand the family importance in the Chinese culture. Red Flag #1

Telling you he loved you after 2 months would be Red Flag #2. Really, 2 months ??? This to me seems like almost a desperate move on his part. I told the first woman I chatted with for 18 months I THOUGHT I was falling in love with her after about a year of chatting. Sadly the economy here got bad, I couldn't go to China and the relationship ended. Again with my current wife, we talked for 9 months before I met her in person, when we did meet, the second day of my visit, I told her I loved her. How can you truly love someone you have never seen in person, held, touched, kissed, walked hand in hand with...... I just think people who express what they think is love early in a relationship are not as true as those who wait. This is my opinion but I have seen this play out in the past and it doesn't end well.

Red Flag #3, the trip, the hotel, the bed arrangements. This part as I was reading it made me feel that he wanted you to pay to meet him then share a bed (and other things) with him. If he didn't like how "things" were than it didn't cost him anything to be with you.

When I traveled to China for my first trip we met in Shanghai and I paid for a double bed room, I paid for the plane tickets the next day back to Nanchang, I paid for the cabs. I should pay, I was coming to China to meet her as a potential life mate. Was is expensive, kind of, I don't like old or dirty places or cars so I had had to pay a little more for something a little nicer. It didn't matter, in the US I would have paid all of this its how we are raised. At least in the US we are. FYI, she (wife) had plenty of money and could have paid all of my expenses but interesting enough I NEVER asked her how much money she made or how much she had saved until the week before her K1 interview. I knew she was very smart, had college education and would have no problem getting a job in the US. I also am fortunate that she doesn't need to work. Though she wants to. Oh, this would be Red Flag #4.

I have to go but you seem to be a very intelligent woman so I believe you are much better off without this person in your life. I talked with a lot of not so good women on CLM before meeting my perfect mate. You might have to do the same but I will say one thing. Do not settle for less than what you want. Your perfect match is out there.

#2014-07-17 04:36:32 by anonymous11033 @anonymous11033

Hi, good article.....in a short reply....you blew it with him, you pressed him continuously and badgered him. You react with Chinese cultural aspects instead of broadening your mind. Western men are not like Chinese men and our cultural beliefs are different. We live in a society where women and men share costs in relationships. You cannot judge a western man by finances alone...we will usually pay but don't be disappointed if we don't.

I personally would not have continued relationship with you under such intense pressure from you. I would have dumped you as fast as I could.....sorry but it is the truth...

This next comment is for all Chinese women on this site...do not judge western men as you would judge Chinese men, we are different and our lifestyles are different. If you continue to do this you will scare off most men here just from the interrogations that you call conversations. WE do our best to accommodate you and your belief structures much more than you think we do as a blending of these beliefs is what will allow for a solid loving relationship. In short if you continue to only have the intention in a relationship of it being the Chinese way only you will lose everytime....

Hope this helps you.......

#2014-07-17 06:19:10 by Runelabs @Runelabs

If he was a Swedish man working in Dubai for a multinational company, he was certainly not lacking the funds and I absolutely refuse to think that he would try to avoid paying for accommodations in a hotel. But suggesting two different hotels would to him be an indication of distrust and resentment, so he would be offended - which might have given him a mind of not caring, but seeing what would happen. I think the problems and arguments just made him realize it was not for him, but that he could still meet - but no longer would care how arrangements were being made since everything was made into a problem with great difficulties.

To think that this man would have any intentions of "finding the most economical way" seems very far fetched, and the only type of gigolos that would make some Chinese woman pay for them come from very poor backgrounds, which most people in northern Europe would find absolutely dishonest and impossible to try and trick someone on the other side of the world.

In Scandinavia and the Nordic countries, the worst thing possibly to do is trying to lie and cheat someone. That is so socially stigmatic and there is absolutely no forgiveness for something, so it would be totally unheard of someone doing such a thing. People take great pride in being able to provide for themselves, and those who receive social welfare benefits are socially stigmatized to such an extent that they get depressed and have difficulties participating in normal social activities. It is a sad affair, but the emphasis on being "an honest hard worker" is so great - and this is also why the incidence of corruption is so low in the Nordic countries. We simply do not need to trick or cheat anyone, because we all have sufficient means to lead a good life - even if unemployed or being sick. The strong welfare system makes everyone fairly equal no matter what. It is truly a strong egalitarian place to live.

That is why in some countries Nordic people are seen as "dumb and naive" because they are easy to cheat for money, and they get tricked by taxi drivers, hagglers and sellers around the world where they go as tourists. But what those who trick them don't understand is that typically Nordic people would never argue over CNY 300 or something like that. We don't like yelling and arguing, but prefer more quiet atmospheres of friendships. So that is why we easily and happily let someone make a liar and cheat of themselves for "small pennies", because it is simply not worth it. A beer in Norway costs CNY 60-100 and so if someone runs away with CNY 300, it is only 3 beers and no Nordic tourist would even care to start a ruckus because of it. Unless when drunk - then it's different. :-D

It's not to boast - but just to explain. This guy working as a Scandinavian in a multinational company in Dubai would be earning very, very, very good money (risk bonuses and more) and Dubai has little to no income tax (which is why I also considered moving there at one point). So he would be in no need to save money, as well as it being culturally unheard of.

Cheers,
Rune

#2014-07-17 07:01:02 by Runelabs @Runelabs

As for emotional capacity...
Since I grew up in Norway and lived some years in Brazil, the contrast was enormous to say the least. I contribute this to the fact that in Norway (and the other Nordic countries) we have our ideals and norms of not making a fuzz about anything, but also the fact that children and youngsters grow up very protected. The whole society is very much geared towards protecting children from any kind of emotional trauma of any sorts. There will be no shouting between parents and unrest at home, because it is not accepted for the sake of the children and them feeling unsafe it it happened. The social services would step in and decide if the household was not healthy for the child. It still happens, but is very hidden and shrouded with shame for those involved - also the children.

So growing up with such norms is totally different to a country like Brasil, and I also imagine it might be very different from China or Asia in general. Children and youngsters will not have known traumas or terrible stressful emotional situations, and therefore not be used to the greater emotional range in relation to others who have such a greater emotional range from their life experiences and the norms of their culture. Therefore I often hear people from Nordic countries being referred to as emotionally cold and "dull", while I hear people from the Nordic countries call e.g Latin people "very happy and exciting" or "relaxed". But it is just that they don't understand each other's backgrounds so well. The Latin cultures are used to much more tragedies and hardships in their daily lives - so they take any chance they can to laugh and play, especially if someone else is paying. While the northerners will not understand that they do this to even out the hardships and tragedies they do endure, but they will gladly pay to make such festivities happen.

Another thing is the formalities and politeness which is completely gone from the Nordic languages. We do not use any of the formal ways of addressing people, not even the kings - unless at the first greet, but afterwards it is the casual "you" as anyone else to address a king directly. It is extremely informal because of the egalitarian society, and it has been so since very old times - except some period in the Middle ages and to the 19th century when more complicated forms were used.

All of this gives a ground for easy misunderstandings, and men from Nordic countries can sometimes be like little lambs being manipulated by women with far more emotional play than they are used to from back home. Most times, Nordic guys will misinterpret emotional plays - and perhaps even "sajiao" as something sincere. We are used to being very direct in intentions, but also shy away from any direct offense to someone because of the potential emotional situation. As an example - in Brasil people will meet and say: "You must come over by my house. You are invited. We can have a barbecue when you come and some beers." Well, it is just being very polite and extending an invitation - they don't actually mean for the other to come by, but it is an open invitation. The Nordic guy on the other hand will respond: "Sure, I can come this Sunday. Should I bring some wine and meat for the barbecue?" (or even skip the bring something part). They take it absolutely literally as a concrete invitation, and not just a courtesy.

That makes communication a bit more complex, since the expectations and norms are so different. Most Nordic guys will not gladly take part in any "emotional drama" but shy away as best they can, while they still see and feel what happens. They just are not used to responding well, and use more time to give some answer in such situations. I have heard about cases here in Norway, where an Asian wife would be angry and pick up a knife to chase her husband and they would be running in circles around the house with her chasing him. It is just not something that would happen in more than every 10 years or something in any place here.

Emotional dramas in the Nordic countries are much more mulled and low key. But that is just the way the people are, and how they see the norm. Of course this creates clashes sometimes when different cultures meet. But the basic idea in the Nordic countries nowadays is that everyone are equal and with equal opportunities, so it is hard for someone without the proper experience to see the necessary stronger family ties to keep each other strong and overcome the hardships. Especially in China the parents and children have a strong bond to ensure their future together - more as a team. While in the Nordic countries, there are no such economic hardships and the welfare system takes care of all - probably thanks to the egalitarian ways where women are half the government ministers or even more sometimes.

It is not impossible to understand for people from Scandinavia, but it takes time and communication - sharing of knowledge and patience. When there has not been an issue of how to take care of the elders for a long time, then people sadly forget ...

Cheers,
Rune

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