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Online Dating Revisited - Multi-Meets /Single Meets & Much More 网上交友——论距离的影响 第二部分 - by Melcyan

By Guest
1763 Views | 8 Comments | 10/16/2015 6:33:50 AM

Long distance online dating provides many success stories, but how to be one of them?

A final word on multi-meets versus single meets ending with a confession. It is interesting to flip through the blogs and magazine articles that John Abbot has produced over the years. His position on multi-meets has been very consistent over a long time and it probably does not need to be detailed any further in this blog. I will concede that for some men and women the multi-meet is the best approach. However, I know from my own experience that it was not the best approach for me and the many success stories on CLM also seem to support a single meet approach.



It is easy to find case studies where the multi-meet fails and case studies where the single meet fails. You can describe a scenario that may have worked better if a multi-meet was used instead of a single meet or vice versa. So what?  If you lack self-understanding and basic empathy for others you are doomed to fail regardless of the approach you choose and it is your self-knowledge (in particular your relationship history) that will suggest which type of meet will give you more chance of success.



Online dating- what we can agree on?



Online dating increases the number of choices. For most people on CLM, the desired end-point is a life partner. So most of us are moving from many choices of CLM profiles to finally one.



There are many pathways to this end-point of one life partner. 



What makes the pathways vary?



It all starts with your profile.  



The written detail on the profile can be very specific or very general -



no photos on the profile or photos on the profile



the photos can be one or many



the photos can be complimentary / realistic or an unrealistic fantasy



ideal partner age rage could be realistic or unrealistic



all categories completed or most left blank



your written information can have maximum detail or minimum detail  



your words can be positive or negative. It is much better to say what you want rather than what you don't want. (eg saying “no game players” is a waste of time and counter-productive)



My personal view on making your best profile is to have the maximum number of positive realistic photos possible, with at least one smiling head shot without hat or sunglasses, at least one full body shot, all categories accurately completed and maximum useful information about yourself and your ideal partner.



The next step of the pathway is exploring the profiles of others and making contact.



How are you going to make the first contact and first impression? 



Is it as simple as looking at a profile when you are logged in? When you look your view is recorded and available for that person to see.



Does it make a difference looking once, twice, ten or fifty times? (There is a difference between the pleasure of being noticed and the feeling that you are being stalked)



A kiss? An email ?A chat? A videochat? Each of these have a different effect. Whichever mode you choose, be true to yourself and never attempt to sell a false image of yourself.



Do you slowly get to know someone allowing for mistakes to be made or should you dismiss them at the first sign of a “red flag”? Before you get rid of an unsuitable contact find out why they were attracted to you. You may learn important information that changes the way you present yourself in your profile and online in general.



Do you use a “fly by the seat of the pants" or gut feeling approach with your questions or do you use systematic questions that have proven effective by many others in the past?



Are you going to spend time researching on the internet what works and doesn't work with online dating or do you think that time is better spent making online contact with potential partners?



Where does “spark” fit in the big scheme of things? 



What does your history tell you about the role that “spark” plays in helping you achieve your goal of finding a life partner?



Should looking online eliminate looking offline? I believe you can only be closely involved with one person at a time but until you reach that stage don't ignore looking locally. You still need to look your best every day and have your living space ready to accommodate your anticipated life partner. These actions may seem unnecessary but they serve the very important purpose of getting your head in the right space. When your everyday life shows you as a person who respects themselves and others, it will show in your online dating as well.



There are some men and women who for want of a better term are just “losers” when it comes to dating of any form. They don't know themselves and they don't want to learn about themselves. Their inability to truly see themselves makes it impossible for them to truly see others. They see the world as being against them. Everything that goes wrong in their life is someone else's fault. Self-knowledge is a huge asset for online dating, in fact, for any dating. John Abbot described some men who set about meeting only one woman and were let down. Were these men "losers"? Would a multi-meet have been a similar failure?



If you have already decided where you stand personally on the multi-meet versus single meet issue don't stop there. Ask yourself how your position matches up with your current level of self-knowledge and your understanding of your relationship history. My history and self-understanding leads me to favor the single meet but if I was in the position of dating on CLM, I would not rule out multi-meet. Multi-meet gives greater choice but less depth. (However choosing the “best” and “sexiest” of nine different women does not necessarily give you what you are ultimately seeking). Single-meet allows me the time and detail to crash or build a friendship with the chance of meeting and then taking it to the next level with a face to face meeting. It suits who I am and I know who I am. If it fails, then the much lower level multi-meets (coffee date etc) are an option that could be combined with tourism.



Paul Fox has written many blogs on his perception of different types of Chinese women. In my opinion it does not matter if a woman has never married, whether she has a child, divorcee, widow, how may qualifications she has or how superstitious she is. Putting people into categories is a waste of time when you are pursuing the goal of finding your life partner. 



Confession time - I was the anonymous author of the following forum thread:



https://blog.chinalovematch.net/forum/post/10-types-of-western-men-seeking-Chinese-women



Even though I believe categorizing men and women in this way is more alienating than it is productive, I still felt a need to write this as a counterbalance to Paul's blogs on different types of Chinese women. I made these categories based on men I know.  



It is very difficult to say what percentage of men and women are the “bad ones” that must be avoided. Let's say the number is 10% and it is the same for men and women. The “bad ones” seem to be much greater in number because they make many more contacts than the average CLM user. If you show a lack of self-knowledge and awareness in your profile you are making yourself an easy target for the “bad ones”. 



The most amazing part of the thread for me was the fact that no one really stood up for MR SHY. There are many MR SHYs who are good men with good hearts. MR SHYs probably make up a large percentage of CLM members.  Not all men are the same but as a general rule ladies, you will increase your chances with a MR SHY by making first contact.



It was always my intention to be respectful to both men and women in my forum on 10 types of western men but in the end I seemed to upset just as many men as Paul did women. If I rewrote it I would definitely would include MR EQUALITY as a category. I had always intended to write an improved version of the 10 types of Western men, but in the end, time and the difficulty of the task were against me. Unfortunately these categories don't help you find MR RIGHT but if they help you avoid the "bad ones" (regardless of what percentage that is) then they have served a useful purpose. If you have received contact so far from mostly the "bad ones" you now have a better idea why and hopefully this post will help you make changes for the better.



NOTE 1 from John and CLM: This blog was a followup to Melcyan's initial Guest Post entitled "Online Dating - How it Changes with Distance". It was a very enlightening and popular post as well, and if you haven't read it you should go do so now.



NOTE 2 from John and CLM: the following translation to Chinese was courtesy of AnnieHow, one of the best and most giving translators to ever volunteer for us. We cannot thank her enough. We might add that AnnieHow has lived in the West, communicates very well in both written and spoken English, and comes in a very nice package, both inside and out. We suggest that the good guys among you are crazy not to be trying to get her attention. I'm sure lots are, but maybe you'll be the "one". However, if anybody causes her any grief, we will have you "taken out"!



这篇博客是关于跨国恋见面见一个还是几个这个话题的结束语,结尾处我要坦白一件事。我翻看了John这些年写的博客和杂志文章,发现一件很有意思的事情。他这么长时间以来一直坚持见几个的立场,我也不需要在本博客里详细解释了。我退一步说,对一些人来说,见几个可能是最好的选择。然而,从我自己的经历而言,这并不是最好的选择,而且CLM上很多成功案例也似乎证明了见一个成功率比较高。



要找到见一个失败或者见多个失败的例子非常容易。你可以描述一个真实经历来说明见几个比较有效或者见一个才行,那又怎么样?如果你不了解自己,对他人也没有同理心,无论你选择哪种方式都不会成功。只有你对自我的认知(尤其是你的恋爱或婚姻史)会说明哪种见面方式成功率会比较高。



关于网上交友,我们能达成什么共识呢?



是什么使我们的道路彼此不同呢?



首先是资料。你的网上资料的内容可能会比较具体或者很笼统:



没有照片或者有照片



有一张或者多张照片



照片符合真人或者不符合



理想对象的年龄段切合实际或者不实际



所有的内容都填写了或者大部分都是空白的



你写的内容细节非常多或者没有细节



你的语言是正面的还是消极的。最好说你想要什么而不是你不想找什么(例如“骗子不要联系我”是浪费时间,而且起反作用)。



我认为最好的资料应该有很多照片,比较像你本人,至少有一张面带微笑的头像,不戴太阳镜或者帽子。至少一张应该是全身照。资料所有内容属实,在本人信息和对象要求一栏要尽可能多写信息。



下一步就是浏览其他人的资料并且跟他们联系。怎么迈出第一步,给对方留下好印象呢?



你登入网站,浏览对方资料就够了吗?当你浏览资料的时候,对方知道你看了她、他的信息。



他的资料你看一遍、两遍、或者五十遍有区别吗?(得到别人的注意而开心和觉得有人鬼鬼祟祟看着是有区别的)



发一个问候还是邮件?打字聊天还是视频聊天?这些不同的选择都会有不同的效果。不管你选择哪种方式,要诚实坦然,不要写不真实的信息,假装你是另外一个人。



你是打算慢节奏了解对方,允许对方犯些错误呢还是打算一看到又不合适的苗头就放弃?在放弃一个人之前,你应该搞清楚他们为什么喜欢你或想跟你联系。你会知道一些重要的信息,由此改变你的资料内容或者网上发表内容的方式或风格。



当你跟对方联系的时候,你是跟着直觉走而发问呢还是你有一些固定的问题,以前用过你觉得比较有效?



你会不会在网上找些信息,研究网恋哪些方式适用而哪些不行?还是你觉得与其网上研究这些内容,不如直接跟一些合适的人联系看看?



“感觉”到底有多重要?总结你过去的恋爱经验,“感觉”在找对象方面有什么作用?网上交友的同时应该不应该放弃现实生活里的相亲?我认为一次只能深入地聊一个,不过在到达那个阶段以前不要放弃在现实生活中相亲。每天你都要精心打扮自己,把你的住处准备好以迎接你所期盼的人生伴侣。这些行动看起来好像没什么必要,然而会让你有一个很积极的心态。当你每天的生活显示你既尊重自己又尊重别人,你在网上跟别人联系的时候对方也会感觉到。



说到恋爱,有一些人我找不到合适的词,暂且用“失败者”来概括吧。他们不了解自己,也不想了解。因此他们也不可能真正了解别人。在他们眼里,这个世界在跟他们作对。生活中不如意的事情总是归结为别人的错。对自己的了解和定位是网上交友的重要前提,事实上,是任何恋爱关系的前提。John Abbot曾经说过一些飞到异国只见一个的男人会失望。他们是“失败者”吗?一次见几个会不会同样是一种失败呢?



如果你已经决定了到底见一个还是见几个,请继续考虑下列问题。你的选择符合不符合你对自己的了解以及你对自己婚姻恋爱史的反思。我的婚姻恋爱史以及对自己的了解让我支持见一个。然而假设我单身,在CLM找,我不会把见多个排除在外。见几个会扩大我的选择面,但是交流就不会那么深入。(然而从九个不同的女人当中选择“最好的”和“最性感的”并不会让你找到你所需要的)。见一个让我时间上更从容,使我可以从细节上了解对方,成为朋友,见面然后关系升级。这种方式比较适合我,而我比较了解自己。如果这一招没有奏效,低层次的见几个( 咖啡约会)是下一个选择,可以和旅游同时进行。



Paul Fox很多博客都写到了他对各种类型的中国女人的看法。我认为一个女人结没结过婚,有没有孩子,离婚或丧偶与否都没有关系。同样的,不管她有多少学位或头衔或者迷信不迷信也无所谓。当你的目标是找到一个人生伴侣,把人按类别划分是浪费时间。



坦白时间:下面这个帖子是我在论坛匿名发的:



https://blog.chinalovematch.net/forum/post/10-types-of-western-men-seeking-Chinese-women



尽管我认为给男人或女人分类并不起什么作用,Paul写了关于不同类型的中国女人的博客,当时我觉得有必要写一个帖子回应一下他的博客观点,所以我根据我对男性的了解做了下类别划分。



要说有多少比例的男人或女人是坏人,我们不该跟他们联系,这比较困难。假设这个数值是10%,男女都一样。我们感觉坏人好像数目比较多,这是因为他们比网站上其他人更活跃,联系的人更多。如果你的资料显示你不够了解自己,不够清楚,你很容易就成为坏人的目标。



发这个帖子后,没有人为“内向先生”说话,真让我惊奇。有很多善良的好男人,性格内向。CLM上大概相当多的人都比较内向。每个人都不一样,不过我对女士们有一句忠告,如果你们主动一些,跟内向的男士联系,成功率会更高。



在论坛上讨论十类西方男人的时候,我一直都坚持尊重男女的原则。然而到后来我觉得自己冒犯了很多男士,正如Paul冒犯了很多女人一样。如果我改写这个帖子的话,一定会把“平等先生”这类男士包括进去。我一直想写一个男士类型的新版本,可是一是时间不允许,二来这个话题太复杂,所以未果。不幸的是,这个分类不会帮你找到合适的对象,可是如果它能帮你识别那些坏人(不管他们占多大的比例),就达到效果了。如果到目前为止跟你联系的大部分都是这些质量比较差的,你现在明白是怎么回事。希望这篇博客能帮你做出积极的改变。


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Comments
(Showing 1 to 8 of 8) 1
#2015-10-16 06:33:21 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

When Melcyan posted part one of this article I promised a long comment to it and so far I have failed to deliver. That is partly because my intended comment has taken on a life of its own, and has become a lengthy chapter in a book I am writing now (painstakingly slowly) on the overall subject of Online Dating, how to succeed at it, and how not to be abused, scammed or injured by your fellow members or by your website.

In a previous small book I wrote a few years back and we gave away to members for a couple of years, I was pretty adamant that the multi-meet approach is best, verging on suggesting it was the only way to go, but frankly, like Melcyan on single meet, I am relenting on that. I have been persuaded by his arguments, and those of Barry and several other bloggers and members, that for some men multi-meets is simply an emotional and psychological impossibility.

I no longer see it as multi-meet vs single meet at all. It is about knowing yourself, loving yourself, and then in the best way for you, finding the one who completes the perfection of your life. Make sure you read this carefully. She completes the perfection of your life, she doesn't cause it or make it.

If you go into any relationship without first ensuring that you are happy with yourself, and without already being content in the way you are living, you are doomed to fail. If you are expecting some great lady to make your life livable because you haven't been able to do that for yourself, then you don't deserve her, eventually she will realize you don't deserve her, and you'll find yourself alone and more needy than ever.

Whether you are a multi-meeter or a single meeter, you have a great chance to succeed here on CLM. I think Melcyan agrees that what really matters is that you enter the process, and continue throughout the online dating experience, in complete honesty, transparency and decency. If you wish to truly meet the love of your life, here or anywhere, you will have to treat every person you meet with candour, kindness and respect. You have to be totally, completely and 100% honest with them.

But it is not possible to be totally honest with someone else if you are not honest with yourself. And so many of us are not remotely honest with ourselves. We look in a mirror, both figuratively and physically, and we see much that is not there, and fail to see so much that is. If that is you, and you're presenting the wrong person to yourself in your mirror, what chance do you have to present the right person to someone else.

No chance, that's how much chance. You are doomed to failure.

In Melcyan's words:

"If you lack self-understanding and basic empathy for others you are doomed to fail regardless of the approach you choose and it is your self-knowledge (in particular your relationship history) that will suggest which type of meet will give you more chance of success." Read that again! Read this blog again!

The key to life, love and happiness is right there for the taking. The key is "self-understanding and empathy for others". They go hand in hand. You cannot have true empathy for others without having complete self-understanding. And you cannot possibly have true self understanding if you fail to be honest with yourself.

I do not agree with every single word that Melcyan has written in these two guest blogs, but neither do I disagree with a single word. Overall, this is a great pair of blogs and they need to be read carefully and completely and probably repeatedly by everyone trying to find true love through online dating or through any other means.

My thanks to you Melcyan for giving us this gift. You will be quoted several times in what no doubt has now become two chapters of my book, If I ever get it completed I will be sure to send you a hardcopy of it.

Now, regarding your threat to leave us, give that some serious second thought. Dancing the night away is a joyous thing, but in the morning you will miss your great many friends and admirers here on CLM, and I include myself in that group. If you leave us, your wisdom, your kindness and your endless positive spirit will be sorely missed by us all.

I'm just saying...

#2015-10-16 12:56:59 by 99moonriver @99moonriver

If you lack self-understanding and basic empathy for others you are doomed to fail regardless of the approach you choose and it is your self-knowledge (in particular your relationship history) that will suggest which type of meet will give you more chance of success.

好文!

#2015-10-16 17:15:51 by paulfox1 @paulfox1

@melcyan
Melsee, me old mucker, good advice and a great blog but I want to add a couple of things if I may.......

Firstly, the types of women I wrote about a long time ago were all based on personal experiences, and.....as was pointed out at the time, these types of women are to be found in every country - not just China!

Secondly, the single versus multi-meet issue is one that should not be encouraged or discouraged - because BOTH are OK depending on a persons circumstances
In other words, both have their pro's and con's and in short, there's nothing wrong with either approach

But what I feel is the most important issue to get right is 'motivation' and there are 3 key questions that we need answers to - no matter how long it takes to find out that answer

1) Why does she seek a western man?
2) Is she after a life-partner or a green-card?
3) Does she want your heart or your wallet?

If those 3 things upset any women reading this then I am sorry but these questions should be asked on meeting anyone, anywhere, and from any country - I am not stereotyping Chinese women.

I like to think that most people are genuine but if everyone WAS.....CLM wouldn't need a Scammer Prison....now would it?

Interesting to hear that John is writing a book too, perhaps we can swap a copy John?
I mean, I'm writing one too but maybe mine is a little more sensitive than yours?
It HAS to be.....especially with the title "How to f**k on the first date" ! (rofl)

#2015-10-17 12:41:46 by Barry1 @Barry1

@melcyan


This article should be required reading in my view for EVERY new CLM member, both male as well as female. Well spoken indeed, Melcyan!


@JohnAbbot

"for some men multi-meets is simply an emotional and psychological impossibility"

This is a MAJOR concession by you, John. For so long, you were adamant that a guy traveling to China to meet one lady only was a fool. I am so glad that you've been broad-minded enough to see that for some people, traveling abroad to meet a group of ladies, one after the other, would be intrinsically wrong for them. This for a variety of reasons would go against their fundamental grain, it would simply not be comfortable nor acceptable to them as caring, thinking and feeling humans.

Having said this, of course they are men like our beloved @PaulFox1 who would happily meet a bunch of ladies. Maybe people like Paul in fact are in the majority? But certainly, not everyone is like this (such as both Melcyan and myself).

As stated many times, there are no right nor wrong answers here. Each person should act according to his own conscience, his own personal set of values.

One other factor needing to be mentioned here is money. Some people with lower net cash availability may have no other choice but to plan to meet several ladies on the one trip, as they simply couldn't afford to make multiple overseas trips. This may go against their core principles yet due to their less than ideal circumstances, they may have no choice in the matter, that conceivably could tear at their soul, their intrinsic set of ethical and moral values.

So the whole discussion about single meets versus multiple meets is complex. It's not just black and white. There are many shades of gray in between.

Well spoken, John and Melcyan! (y)(clap)(y)(clap)

#2015-10-18 01:27:52 by melcyan @melcyan

“I no longer see it as multi-meet vs single meet at all It is about knowing yourself, loving yourself, and then in the best way for you, finding the one who completes the perfection of your life. Make sure you read this carefully. She completes the perfection of your life, she doesn't cause it or make it.”
John, we are in complete agreement here.

@paulfox1 Your comment made me aware of something very important that I did not cover enough in part 1 or 2 of this blog.

The need to protect ourselves.

Self-honesty is a crucial first step. Honesty with ourselves and others fosters honesty from others but honesty from everyone is impossible. There are always some who are out to take advantage of us. How do we deal with them? How does a parent protect their child from a pedophile?

The first step is to clearly recognize the danger. The worst thing to do is cross your fingers and hope for the best. Trust takes time to develop and it must be earned. Some situations should never be trusted. Never trust that your words or images of you that travel via the internet or phone will be protected. I have read elsewhere on this site that some think it is perfectly ok for consenting adults to have a nude video chat. NEVER TRUST THAT YOUR WORDS OR IMAGES OF YOU THAT TRAVEL VIA THE INTERNET OR PHONE WILL BE PROTECTED.

Protection from scammers is one of CLM's strengths. However, the protection is not complete. You have to make up the shortfall. CLM cannot completely stop the “bad ones” from contacting you and trying to take advantage of you. Your protection is primarily your responsibility. You have to step up and give yourself the protection that you need.

You need to make sure your online dating actions are given the closest possible scrutiny. One possible way is to keep a journal of your interactions with potential matches. Write in the third person about yourself. Write as if a camera is in your home monitoring every online interaction you have with a potential partner. Give yourself a rating out of 10 for online safety for every interaction you have with a potential partner. Reflect on alternative courses of action. Which actions are the wisest? Which actions are the most dangerous?

@Barry1 made the comment “As stated many times, there are no right nor wrong answers here. Each person should act according to his own conscience, his own personal set of values.” There are no right or wrong answers that are the same for every person but when you put yourself under the microscope of self-honesty, self-scrutiny, self-protection and personal well-being, you will definitely identify courses of action for YOU that are clearly right or wrong.

It is amazing how often the same mistakes get repeated in online dating. Don't just learn from you own experiences, learn from the experiences of others. Don't limit yourself to a forensic examination of just your own online practices. You need to be just as forensic with the way you examine the stories of others. The blogs of Imi and Zoe are ripe for forensic examination, but very little was done by readers commenting on their stories. Most comments were reactive and judgmental about them or their partner. Imi's and Zoe's biggest failures were insufficient self-knowledge and self-protection.

What choice will you make? Will you take a very active role in protecting yourself or will you just hope for the best?

#2015-10-18 22:04:31 by paulfox1 @paulfox1

Good words my friend !
You also made me think of a couple of English Proverbs, as well as the best piece of advice ever written.....

The proverbs are -

1) A TRUE friend will stab you in the FRONT!

2) Learn by other people's mistakes - You cannot live long enough to make them all yourself!

The advice = Your Gut is NEVER wrong! - Meaning forget your heart and your head and whatever advice they give you - go with your GUT INSTINCT because if something FEELS wrong, it often is....

Barry, myself and others have often said that there is no "right' or 'wrong' to many issues - and it's perfectly true......
There are controversial issues that confront us regularly where there is no right or wrong.....

Abortion
Sex before marriage
Is there a 'God' ?
Should people be forced to retire at 55?

etc, etc, etc

Opinions differ on MANY subjects where there is no right and wrong and the multi-meet v single meet is certainly one of them, but you have raised other issues too that also fit into the 'just IS....' category..............

#2015-10-18 22:20:21 by melcyan @melcyan

@paulfox1
To anyone who has read our blogs and comments, it would quickly become apparent that we attract different people. Over the course of my 3 years on CLM, I have had many conversations with CLM women in blog comments and forum comments. Of the women with whom I have had repeatedly exchanged comments ( more than 5 exchanges), I do not believe that I have met a green-card / wallet chaser yet.

I have also had 5 Penpals and two of them have become long term friends. Again no green-card/ wallet chaser to be found. However, I am confident “the bad ones” exist. I am also confident that the “bad ones”, both male and female, make many more contacts than everyone else.

Last year I went onto another dating site for a few weeks to help a penpal with a problem. In those few days, I was bombarded with contacts. Those women did not read that I was only interested in penpals. I strongly suspect that these women were contacting every new man on the dating site. It is quite likely that most of these women were green card / wallet chasers or scammers.

Even when I was single and online dating in Australia in 2009 I am sure the women that made contact with me and the ones that I made contact with were different from the women you meet. I suspect that the only women who would try to contact both of us would definitely be the green card/ wallet chaser type or scammers.

I don't have trouble reading the motivations of my penpals because we are genuine friends. The only time in my life where I really messed up reading the motivation of a woman that I was interested in was when I was too strongly “spark” driven and only seeing what I wanted to see.

Motivation is not hard to pick if you are open and honest with yourself and the person you seek. Honesty cuts through fake and when honesty meets honesty it can become a magic place. Fake meeting fake will never produce anything more than a shallow sexual conquest.

#2015-10-19 21:33:38 by melcyan @melcyan

Since the discussion of multi-meet vs single meet first began a long time ago, there has been a lot of strong debate, but looking back, 3 people on this present blog have made a major change in their original position - John, Barry and myself. Barry and I have now conceded that multi-meet is the best way for some people, and as long as it is conducted in the very ethical way John has outlined, there is no problem. John has changed his position to accept that the single meet for some is the best way. I think we also agree that the starting point before we even start to search for another is self-knowledge, self-honesty, self- love, self-respect. This puts you in the best position to get to know another with honesty.

Who else has changed their view? Have any women changed their view?

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