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John Abbot is co-owner of ChinaLoveMatch.net. Married to a lovely Chinese Lady and living in China, John knows and respects China, Chinese Women, Chinese People and Chinese Culture. His blog will include good stuff about Online Dating, Chinese Women, International Relationships and Things Chinese. Join John Abbot on Google+
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In Defence of Lily, a Much Maligned Chinese Woman    

By John Abbot
4860 Views | 18 Comments | 7/20/2014 11:59:13 AM

How bad is Lily? Does she belong in Scammer Prison? Not at all!

I started a thread a while back in which I asked people to comment regarding the stars of Imi's current blog series "My Love for Lily" and address two positions I had suggested:



a)  Why Imi was not so dumb but was very good! and



b) Why Lily was not so bad but was very dumb!



There were a number of comments made, which you can see on the thread itself, "Class Lesson #1 - Imi's Blog".



It seems pretty close to unanimous in the comments that that Imi is clearly not a dumb man, he is simply a good man who fell in love with someone who did not fall in love with him. So let's move on to why I feel that Lily was not such a bad woman but was dumb. That was not accepted unanimously at all.



Clearly Lily was seeking security in the future, both for herself and her son. Can anybody fault her for that? Personally I would lose respect for a woman quite quickly who didn't want security for herself and especially for her son. 



There has been much talk in this series of Lily being a golddigger, or money hungry, or only caring about money or only wanting a rich man, but I don't recall reading a single thing that points in that direction except Lily herself saying "I am a bad woman. I want someone rich.", or words to that effect. Nothing else in her behaviour suggests she is money hungry. As Paul Fox frequently says "Actions speak louder than words!" 



Let's look at Lily's actions:



1. When Imi first came to China she they had been communicating for some time on the internet, and when he arrived they surely communicated some more. It isn't clear that Imi had told her his exact financial position, but it is pretty clear that he's no blowhard and is an open and honest guy, so we can assume that she knew pretty closely what he was worth financially. Basically she knew he was a good worker with a good job, and some savings he'd accumulated over time. He wasn't a Doctor, or a wealthy business man or someone who was going to inherit a fortune, so she had no reason to expect a life of wealth with Imi. He had $40,000 in savings, but even assuming she knew that, it's a nice start on a life together, in the sense that it would make a good down payment on a modest home, but it is a long way from a free ride.



And yet she wanted to meet him in China, went out of her way to make his visit a good one, did not ask for and would not accept him paying her for the expenses she had incurred, and clearly still seemed to consider him a potential husband after he had arrived back home from that first visit.  I just don't see a hint of Golddigger or, as someone suggested, "evil, selfish, manipulative" behaviour. Her actions until then point to someone who is looking for someone like Imi, but is not sure he can provide the security she wishes.



Just the same, she appears to at least be leaning towards accepting him as her partner, right up until he announced he had lost his savings. Only then did she decide it just couldn't work.



Well let's get this straight, even Imi knew this threw a big wrench in the gears. He went from having the nest egg that could make it all work to not having that nest egg. Even later, the best he could promise was that if she gave him a commitment to wait for him for two years he'd get it back. (BTW, if you haven't heard, for a Chinese woman, always under intense pressure, externally by parents and friends and internally by her cultural background, to marry ASAP, two years is a lifetime.)



Having heard of this loss Lily took some time it think about it and decided that not having that nest egg was the straw that broke the camel's back, and she decided to call things off. In her mind, the loss of $40,000 was the difference between him being able to offer her the security she wanted and not being able to offer it. $40,000 is not vast wealth, it is not lifelong security, it is not big money, it is simply a small building block upon which a couple can hope to work hard together and create a good life and a secure future. It was the loss of that small building block that made the difference to Lily.



Imi came back to China again, and Lily told him from the start of this trip that he was only coming as a friend and to expect nothing more than that. At no time during that trip did she ask for money from him, until he pressured her into going shopping, and even then she would not let him spend as much as he was willing to, but would only accept one blouse. I am not seeing any evil, selfish, manipulative golddigging here. NONE! ZIP! NADA!



Only Lily herself, in words, not actions, suggested she is a bad woman and only wants a rich man. 



Lily spoke those words at a time when:



1. She had decided to reject Imi and was feeling guilty about it, because she knew he was a good man and she knew he truly loved her, so she knew that she was hurting him.



2. She probably was doubting her own decision and hated herself just a little for rejecting someone she cared for over finances.



3. She wanted to make it easy for Imi to get over the rejection by making herself look bad in his eyes. 



How many times have any of us put ourselves down when breaking up with someone who loves us or desires us by making ourselves look bad.  The famous line is "It isn't you, it's me. I'm not good enough for you because I am _________! (ugly, stupid, greedy, a cheater, poor, you fill in the blank)". 



But her actions deny the truth of her words. I cannot see a single reason to accuse her of being evil, selfish or manipulative. People seem to not notice that Lily broke up with Imi in as gentle a way as he would let her, without ever asking for or trying to obtain a single dime from him.  When offered a chance to have Imi go back to Canada and struggle for two years to save the money he'd lost to share with her, all she had to do was tell an easy lie, and she could have had that as a fallback in case she didn't find her "rich man", but she said "no". An evil, selfish, manipulator would have said "yes" in a heartbeat, and then just spent the two years trying to find her wealthy man.



Someone else commented that the entire Imi/Lily story is just about two people coming together, and one falling in love while the other one didn't, and I partially agree with that comment. But I think there's one big difference, and that is that Lily was falling in love with Imi, but would not let herself do that out of her intense need for security. And that is why I am saying she was dumb.



She let a man go who wanted to cherish her, care for her, be the father to her son, and to love her forever, in spite of the fact that she clearly recognized how good he was and clearly was very fond of and attracted to him. She knew him to be a good worker, a good saver of money, an honest person, diligent, kind, caring, honest, faithful, loving and with her very best interests at heart. This was a man prepared to toil for two years to save up (again) the money that had been lost so they could then start the life she had wanted, all the while trusting her to be faithful to him. This is not an easy man to find.



But so needy was she for immediate security, so desperate, that she threw that man away over not vast wealth, not riches, but a small nest egg of $40,000.  This is not evil, not selfish and not manipulative; it is just really bad decision making. It is just plain dumb.



Of course, this is just my opinion and I can be as right or as wrong as anyone else, but I have been manipulated by a real evil, selfish manipulative Chinese woman, and I can tell you she was worlds apart from Lily. In my opinion all Lily did was make a big mistake, one that she may well rue for the rest of her life.



But as there are three chapters to go in this story, Lily may yet prove me wrong. I sure hope not.


Copyright owned jointly by Author and CyberCupid Co., Ltd. Breach of copyright will be prosecuted.
Comments
(Showing 1 to 10 of 18) 1 2 More...
#2014-07-20 13:22:56 by Barry1 @Barry1

@johnabbot

An interesting summary of events thanks John, but you've left out one or two potentially important points.

If you remember, on Imi's first trip to China, when he first met Lily at the airport, Lily was unsmiling. Her whole demeanour as described by Imi seemed quite strange to me. Certainly not that of an excited, happy lady. Right from the get go, I had a bad feeling about the relationship. I know her brother had just had a car accident, but nevertheless, the impression I received from the very start was that there was - and is - MORE to this than mere money.

With no offence meant to Imi, but maybe she didn't particularly like his looks? Maybe she didn't like his body? Stranger things have happened. Maybe she didn't like his personality? His conversational ability? His overall manner and demeanour?

Most of the discussion here has concerned money. I submit however, that there's MORE to the story than just money. Sure, the $40,000 loss was a CATYLYST - but I submit there are other significant factors involved. Untold things, that only Lily herself could reveal, which of course she won't, because of her private nature.

To me, Imi is a great catch for any woman. I genuinely do wish him well. I am one hundred per cent certain though that he will have - and almost certainly already has - found a wonderful replacement for Lily here on CLM. My bet is that Lily is now well and truly out of the picture. I agree she was very short sighted to let Imi go.

By the way, thanks for the blog articles, Imi - I've enjoyed reading them. (y)

And thank you John, for giving me the opportunity to publish my own personal "My China Trip" series, that in certain respects, provides an interesting and varied contrast to Imi's experiences. (wasntme)

#2014-07-20 14:07:31 by panda2009 @panda2009

All men and women abuses their gender advantages who deserves no pity.
Abuse of gender advantages: I'm a woman, the man will chase after me, as long as I lower requirements at any time can be married.

#2014-07-20 14:26:49 by Runelabs @Runelabs

Yes, rejecting someone does not make that person bad. Also, a person who risks losing their nest egg is perhaps someone who would be considered gullible or a risk taker in general. For someone who have a very modest background, this might be very frightening. Still, the story is mostly about how rejection hurts.

Cheers,
Rune

#2014-07-20 23:53:30 by anonymous11114 @anonymous11114

John, I have read and reread this several times. You have brought many valid points I defence of Lily's actions and her words. I actually agree with a few of your points. BUT when the cards were on the table Lily "CHOSE MONEY OVER A MAN WHO LOVED HER WITH ALL HIS HEART"

She chose to give up a lifetime full of love, potential security within a 2 years span, a father for her son, a chance to live in one of the best countries in the world, knowing he would love her, protect her, cherish her etc etc etc

Yes she is dumb, very dumb...but at the end of the day...she wants money.....plain and simple...there is no honour in choosing the almighty dollar over love....

I also think Imi is much better off without Lily in his life, no if's and or but's!

Well written article John.........

#2014-07-21 15:07:55 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

@Barry1 - I agree there were possible signs throughout that Lily did not return Imi's near unconditional love for Imi, but that is her right. It doesn't in anyway that I can see turn her into the horrible woman that many readers wish to see her as.

We're all entitled not to fall in love with someone regardless of how much they might love us.

I agree that Imi is better off without Lily because no one should spend their life loving someone who doesn't love them back.

#2014-07-21 15:10:38 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

@Runelabs - I agree that this story is about the disappointment and pain of rejection, and not about good or bad people at all. Thanks.

#2014-07-21 15:24:04 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

@anonymous11114 - I think the real problem with your comment is the assumption you are making in the statement "She chose to give up a lifetime full of love" because you are assuming that Lily loved Imi, but loved money more.

However, we have no reason to believe that Lily loved Imi. I suggest to you that her rejection of Imi suggests that she would not have experienced a lifetime full of love, because a lifetime "full of love" can only occur between 2 people who love each other.

I don't think we have remotely enough evidence to conclude anything about Lily as to whether she was a good or bad person. We only know for certain that she did not love Imi sufficiently to choose a life with him over one that she hoped would offer her more security.

You're right that Imi is better off without her and he should be thankful that she was honest enough with him, and a good enough person, to let him off the hook when she clearly could have kept him hanging on and suffering at least 2 years longer, and likely sucked some cash out of him in the process.

But we can agree to disagree... thanks for your comments.

#2014-07-21 19:21:11 by BJAnita @BJAnita

"My Love for Lily" is so popular here,I couldn't help to read all last night, also read most comments of members..very interesting.

I really think Lmi wants to show us his atitude to love in fact,instead of who is right who is wrong. how do you think about love? different people have different answers,the atitudes of love lead to different results,a successful love story means the two have abilities to keep balance of feeling and need of the two. To Lmi, the feeling of love is more important, so money is not so important, to Lily, she feared poverty, as she is a Chinese mother, it is easy to understand too.

Life belongs to every person, so we all try to live with ourselves pholosophy, we don't want to regeret in the future, then we can enjoy what we did before. Lmi and Lily all made it with their experience. Please think about it, if they are your brother or sister, what we can say to them?

What they need is finding out right person only.

#2014-07-21 21:46:20 by prana @prana

I'm still can not determine, Lily CLM here?
Lily saw the lmi's blog?
lmi liked Lily, this is true.
I guess, lmi this blog post,
Should also be addressed to Lily watching.
Because, I was once done so.
However, the "sand" and did not see.
"Sand" not want to see.
This world, there are many more,
Younger, pretty woman.
He can choose one, seemed to him, that is the best that one!
In case,
There is a man, he does not like my words
regardless of what method I used, is useless.
I did not want to comment Lily.
lmi chose the wrong woman.
Therefore, lmi get such a results.
Sometimes we complain about the unfair of God.
Is it not because of their own wrong decisions
Ultimate has lead to this one result.

Blessing lmi, Lily everything is fine!

我仍然不能确定,莉莉在CLM这里吗?
莉莉看见了lmi的博客吗?
lmi喜欢莉莉,这是真实的。
我猜想,lmi的这个博客文章,
也应该是写给莉莉看的。
因为,我也曾经这样做过。
可是,那个“沙”并没有看到。
“沙”也不想看。
这世间,还有更多的,
年轻的、漂亮的女子。
他可以选择一个,在他看来,认为是最好的那一个!
如果,
有一个人,他不喜欢我的话,
不管我用什么方法,也是无济于事的。
我不想再评论莉莉。
lmi选择了一个错误的女人。
所以,lmi得到了这样的一个结果。
有时候,我们抱怨上帝的不公平。
难道不是因为自己错误的决定,
最终导致了这样的一个结果。
祝福lmi、莉莉一切都好!

#2014-07-22 08:28:53 by fj1383 @fj1383

Certainly we can't blame Lily for everything. As much as we all agree Imi is a great catch, he's obviously far away from being the "perfect" man. Some of you might remember that Imi got divorced because his ex-wife cheated on him and also used him to get the Canadian citizenship. As Runelabs said, Imi seems to be a gullible kind of guy who, in my humble opinion, fails to see the bad side in people, therefore it's also his fault for letting his emotions get the best of him for loving Lily, someone without his same standards. We might hate to admit it but somehow Imi is behaving like a spoiled little brat who wants to get his favorite toy from Toys R Us at any cost, no matter if this toy will ever make him truly happy. Sorry to everybody for comparing Lily to a toy but unfortunately this seems to be the way some men choose their partners, out of simple whim. What happened with considering the other person's feelings? We are not shopping in a store for an object, certainly we can't teach someone to love us....that's just plain ridiculous.

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