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Born and raised in Maryland, USA, and attended the University of Maryland, but now living in Pennsylvania, RTByrum is an author and publisher of 9 books but does not make a living at it. His places traveled include Britain and China. His past marriage was to a Chinese woman for 3 years. He since claims to have found the secret to happiness and hopes to share that happiness with someone special, and through his blogs, perhaps also with you.
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Dating Chinese Women: Vestis Virum Reddit, Part 2    

By RWByrum
927 Views | 34 Comments | 5/30/2018 12:23:14 PM

Picture of me taken from my webcam

            You know, the whole "Oh my God, you won't ever get a date with those profile pictures" would have carried a great deal more weight were it not for the fact that 34 CLM members and 12 ALM members have contacted me despite my profile pictures.  A couple of them have contacted more than once and one was so interested in me that she has contacted me no fewer than three times despite the fact that I have told her that I was not interested in her twice already.  I have said this before, too.  But like I said, not everyone reads every comment.  I simply have not been convinced that I was discouraging "worthy" potential partners because of my profile pictures.  I have been convinced that I have been discouraging the shallow, the gold diggers, the ones searching for trophy husbands and the ones primarily interested in impressing the outside world rather than pleasing themselves.

           Part of the Arthurian legend was a story of one of the Knights of the Round Table, I think it was Sir Gawain, who married a woman who then gave him this choice, she could be stunningly beautiful in public but hideous in private or stunningly beautiful in private but hideous in public.  Most men would have chosen the former because impressing others was more important to them than pleasing themselves.  The hero of the Arthurian story, however,  knew that he lacked the wisdom to choose, so he left the decision to the woman and because of this she was beautiful both in public and in private.

            So, instead of intentionally misrepresenting myself, I have chosen to show the world the way that I really am and allow the ladies to decide for themselves if I am worthy of their attention or not.  I would much rather be rejected immediately than have a lady choose to date me only to be disappointed later.

            I am fully aware that Chinese culture espoused the same attitudes towards clothing that Western culture has long promoted.  This was why so many of the ladies on CLM dress up for their profile pictures.  But while Chinese culture and the beliefs and attitudes that formed an important part of that culture provided the context in which the personalities of the Chinese ladies who are members of CLM were formed.  We must never forget that all of those ladies are individuals.  Their personal beliefs and attitudes may reflect Chinese culture to varying degrees, but none of them were so completely enthralled by that culture that they were incapable of making their own decisions or choosing to deviate from those beliefs and attitudes.  That was why 34 CLM members contacted me, thus breaking from the prevailing norms of their own culture.

            I viewed every woman on CLM as an individual.  When one of them commented on the blogs or on the forums, I always believe that they were only speaking for themselves, even those who pretended otherwise.  In a similar vein, I regarded the attitudes, actions, and beliefs of one woman as her own.  I did not project them onto others.  I never assumed that all Chinese women think the same thoughts, act the same way or believe the same things.  That was precisely why I can hold out the hope that I could find a compatible Chinese woman, even here on CLM.  Chinese culture might well be overly materialistic and place too much emphasis on appearances, but that hardly meant that every single Chinese woman must adhere to those attitudes a priori.  Unfortunately, that was all too often seemed to be the implication of some of the comments left on my blog.

            As for my wardrobe, I have already remarked that I share Neil Young's fashion sense.  Except that I usually wear corduroys or slacks rather than blue jeans.  There was much more to the issue of fashion sense vis-a-vis romantic success that was well-illustrated by the example of Neil Young.  John observed that perhaps I should not compare myself to Neil Young until I become a rock star.  Well, that was clearly not within the realm of possibility, but what was within the realm of possibility was achieving the equivalent level of fortune and fame by writing a best-selling novel, highly improbable, obviously, but far from impossible.  Neil Young attracted women despite his fashion choices, not because of them and the main sources of that attraction were undoubtedly his fortune and fame.

            Did I honestly expect to find a compatible woman on CLM or anywhere else?  No.  I fully realized just how much the odds are against me, but that was hardly a reason not to try.  One of the very few certainties in life was that if you do nothing, nothing will happen.  What CLM provides me is not the certainty of success but the opportunity to succeed.  A very valuable opportunity, in my estimation.  If I did manage to find my lifemate, I would cherish precisely because I would regard finding her as nothing short of a miracle.  That's the reason why one of my favorite songs has always been Question by the Moody Blues.  The lyrics of that song included the words, "I'm looking for someone to change my life.  I'm looking for a miracle in my life.  And if you could see what it's done to me to lose the love I knew, could safely lead me to the land that I once knew, to learn as we grow old the secrets of our souls."

            Writing this blog entry proved much more difficult than any of my previous entries.  I felt the need to be very careful with what I said and how I said it.  I wrote and re-wrote it a number of times before finally settling on its final form which you now see before you.  I had to attempt several different approaches before I finally found the one which worked the best.

Copyright owned jointly by Author and CyberCupid Co., Ltd. Breach of copyright will be prosecuted.
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#2018-05-30 12:22:54 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

I am going to tell you why I think you've made a mistake in your approach. Not a huge mistake, and not one that would make it impossible to find a great Chinese match. But a mistake that greatly reduces your chances of doing so.

It isn't about the photos you have posted, it's about the one you didn't post.

The photos you have posted are of you as you look in day to day life. I agree that it is very important that the women viewing your profile must see you as you really are, as you really dress, under normal circumstances. That's the real you, and it is essential that the real you is someone that they can be happy living with throughout everyday life.

And I agree that you have weeded out "the shallow, the gold diggers, the ones searching for trophy husbands and the ones primarily interested in impressing the outside world rather than pleasing themselves." 

But I also think you have discouraged a large group of ladies who might well have been very interested in you, and who are not shallow, not gold diggers, not searching for trophy husbands and not primarily interested in impressing the outside world. These are very acceptable women, who don't mind a very casual look for day to day life, but who have friends and families to deal with, and whose opinions are important to them.

If you consider one's close friends, parents, siblings or children to be part of a woman's outside world, then maybe this isn't important, but culture in China is such that these people are important. Especially family. These women would probably hope that for important occasions, such as weddings, funerals, maybe children's graduations, and other such events, you don't mind dressing yourself up a little bit.

And in Part 1 of this blog, you did indeed acknowledge that you recognize a need to do so. So I think you made a mistake not posting one picture of yourself looking like you were ready for that wedding, funeral, etc.

As I say, it wasn't a deadly mistake, but I suspect you may have doubled or maybe even tripled the number of ladies who were interested in you by posting that one additional photo. To me, increasing the odds like that would have been worth taking that extra step of borrowing or renting the clothes that would show me at my dressed up best.

At the same time, I think the photos you have posted would still have succeeded in discouraging the list of undesirables you wre hoping to discourage.

This isn't intended as criticism, but more as food for thought, and if not for yourself then for others who are new to the online dating game, and especially cross cultural online dating, and who may need to be aware of different ways to look at the same issue.

Regardless of our different viewpoints, here's to your success in finding the ever elusive perfect match. More than anything else, what should be obvious to everyone reading your blogs is that you are a very good person, and there is really nothing more attractive to other good people than that, so in the long run, you are bound to succeed.(beer) 

#2018-05-30 13:14:21 by RWByrum @RWByrum

@JohnAbbot

An excellent suggestion John.  In fact, I intend to follow this advice when I am able to make my triumphant return to online dating.  This comment does bring up an important point.  I never show up to a wedding or a funeral dressed in a t-shirt.  But it has been quite a long time since I have attended either.  My last funeral was in 1985 and my last wedding was in 2012.  I don't currently have any pictures of myself from that event--I'll have to ask my sister if she has any.  Renting clothes for the purpose of taking a profile picture is an excellent suggestion.

#2018-05-30 14:32:09 by Barry1 @Barry1

@RWByrum

@JohnAbbott

 

Interesting and valid comments from both Roger and John here.

 

One thing though that perhaps needs more focus on is as follows.

 

It's my personal belief that Western men now will find it increasingly difficult to attract a Chinese lady - compared to say, ten or twenty years ago - simply because of the increasingly better standard of living nowadays in China.

 

The burgeoning middle class is accelerating its growth rate. Twenty years ago, a much higher chance existed that Western men would possess considerably more in material terms than the lady.  But now, the gap has diminished significantly.

 

In a nutshell, Western men are no longer regarded quite as highly as they were in years gone by as a prized prospective marriage partner, simply because of this self-evident, demonstrable and bleedin' obvious fact. :^)

#2018-05-30 16:20:48 by melcyan @melcyan

I don't think Roger will change his photos based on John's comment. However, any other CLM man thinking of presenting themselves in only the everyday clothes that they wear at home should read John's comment with a great deal of care. If you act on his advice you will significantly increase your chances of success.

#2018-05-30 22:00:06 by paulfox1 @paulfox1

@RWByrum

You are prettier tham @Melcyan, more handsome than @Barry1, far more good-looking than @Imi, and at least 10-times more handsome than @JohnAbbot.

That said, I suggest you get some 'studio shots' so you don't look like a computer-nerd. Just saying, lol

 

#2018-05-31 08:22:14 by RWByrum @RWByrum


@paulfox1

Would looking like a metrosexual be an improvement? ;)

#2018-05-31 08:26:20 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

@paulfox1

@RWByrum

Please note, Roger, that Paul does not seem to think you match him in his glorious handsomeness, so while you can strive for greatness, you apparently cannot strive for perfection. (wasntme)

#2018-05-31 08:52:06 by JohnAbbot @JohnAbbot

@Barry1 - I think you are right but in a wrong sort of way.

We do not feel that there is any less interest by Chinese women in Western men than previously.  There still remain a great number of Chinese women who appreciate the perceived differences in Western men than Chinese men.  Those perceived differences are that Western men are more romantic, more loving, more giving both emotionally and sexually and more likely to be faithful. 

The difference, as you've noted, is that finances have changed. So now, Western men have a greater chance of finding a Chinese woman interested in him, who may actually have greater finances than his own, and rather than hoping to join him in his country, is looking for him to move to China to be with her. 

Since we started CLM 10 years ago, I would say that it has gone from the percentage of Chinese ladies wishing to marry and move out of China being at least 90%, and has now become about a 50/50 proposition. And the pendulum has by no means stopped swinging in that direction.

But this does not mean these ladies are unconcerned about the man's ability to contribute finanancially to some degree, so men should have either some form of fixed income or the ability to earn money in China.  However, the cost of living remains considerably lower in China than in  most Western countries, so that income does not have to be as high as it would be to support yourself back home. 

#2018-05-31 09:41:15 by Barry1 @Barry1


@JohnAbbot

 

"I think you are right but in a wrong sort of way."

 

Thanks for the informative reply, John. Great stuff.

 

I shall touch upon this subject again in a future blog, so I won't say much now.

 

Thank you again.  Please have a beer on me!  (beer)

#2018-05-31 19:10:41 by paulfox1 @paulfox1


@RWByrum

Roger, I thought you already WERE metrosexual, lol

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