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John Abbot is co-owner of ChinaLoveMatch.net. Married to a lovely Chinese Lady and living in China, John knows and respects China, Chinese Women, Chinese People and Chinese Culture. His blog will include good stuff about Online Dating, Chinese Women, International Relationships and Things Chinese. Join John Abbot on Google+
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Cybersex Resolution: Member Comments with CLM Response    

By John Abbot
2994 Views | 2 Comments | 10/7/2012 3:42:57 PM

We’ve been hashing over the Cybersex Pressure issue in the background here, while dealing with some other dramatically important (to us) matters relating to Google’s new methods of determining the importance of a website. You’re going to hear a lot more about that in the near future, but meanwhile now we’d like to get back to the cybersex issue and what we hope to do about it. Grab a coffee and settle in because this is going to be a long read.

We have accumulated the various comments below and are providing our response to them. Hopefully we’ll be able to convey in our responses our reasons for deciding why or why not we felt the suggestions could be acted upon, so by the time we reach or conclusion our reasoning for the actions we are going to take will already be clear and will not need repeating.

Note: In some cases a suggestion or comment was made more than once so we’ve only added the comment once here. Also, some comments were observations that did not include suggestions for dealing with the problem, and we are not replying to those comments, but that does not mean they weren’t appreciated. For those reasons you may not find your comment listed, but if you made a suggestion than please look for a similar suggestion to see our response.

First we’ll deal with the ladies comments and then move on to the men.

Ladies Comments (C = comment, R = CLM response)

C: Women can and should exercise self-policing of the issue by blacklisting men who ask for cybersex.

R: We agree that this is an important part of the solution and women who find any request for Cybersex to be offensive should immediately blacklist the offending member. However, we have members (both male and female) of varying degrees of sophistication and many ladies may simply not feel comfortable in determining whether the request was offensive or not, due to a lack of cultural understanding, lack of online experience or even a lack of life experience.

We think something has to be done that allows the more sophisticated and confident lady members to take action other than blacklisting for serious offenders to be sure that the less sophisticated or confident ladies are not left to deal with the offenders on their own.

C: Both men and women should remember we are a site about real relationships and respect that and each other to foster a community spirit.

R: This is very true and we hope should be adhered to by all members in every aspect of participation on CLM. We’ve recently concluded that community building should be our number one goal on CLM.

C: Set up a scoring or credit system much like TaoBao.

R: For westerners unfamiliar with TaoBao it is basically China’s equivalent of eBay, although in our opinion it is better run. TaoBao’s scoring system, like eBay’s, relates to vendors and customers being able to rate each other as to trustworthiness.

Unfortunately we feel that members generally do not have sufficient in depth contact with sufficient numbers of other members for the scoring system approach to work. This type of system requires that each party be rated by hundreds of people in order for averages to kick in and the scoring have any meaning. If a member only meets 3 opposites and 2 of them don’t like him for simply rejecting them, he will have a score of 33%. This outcome would be branding him as undesirable forever and would be totally unfair.

Men’s Comments

C: Educate the women that this isn't normal behavior and they don't have to accept it.

R: We’re going to interpret this to mean add some clear information on the website that teaches lady members that it is not normal behavior for Western men to PRESSURE women to have cybersex with them, and that anytime a male member does request cybersex, no matter how politely, the ladies should feel free to reject his request without hesitation unless they genuinely wish to participate. Should the male member persist to pressure the ladies, they should be aware of their right to blacklist him and take additional action to protect other women members from suffering similar abuse.

We agree and intend to create a website page that is prominent, like our Scammer education page, to so educate new members.

C: Obtain verifiable credentials

R: We do not think this is practical, and also believe it infringes on all members right to retain their confidentiality as a member of an online dating site. Bad members can easily forge such ID and good members should not be obliged to provide it, so in the end little would be gained and much would be lost.

C: Post on every profile behavior is not allowed. Let women click on profile of offender button and offender displayed for all to see.

R: Unfortunately this ignores the fact that frequently members of both genders will react quite emotionally and unreasonably to rejection, even though they are rejected in the most polite and least offensive manner possible. We receive constant demands to place members in Scammer Prison because they “cheated” the complainant, but our investigation leads us to conclude that all the accused member did was politely and kindly advise the complainant that he or she was not interested in a relationship.

CLM will never place any member in a position where they could be unilaterally publicly embarrassed at the whim of another member without benefit of a thorough investigation by CLM resulting in irrefutable evidence that a complaint against them was justified.

C: Upon a complaint being received suspend accused and if complaint is proven valid then delete the culprit.

R: We agree with this suggestion provided that the complaint is not unbelievable on its face, and provided that if proven valid it is a complaint about behavior that is sufficiently obnoxious to be deserving of termination.

C: Check with other users when someone complains to see if it happened to them.

R: If we understand correctly you mean check the chats or messages of other members who have been in contact with the accused person to see if they have also suffered pressure to have cybersex – we already do this.

If you meant we should start contacting all the persons the accused has been in contact with and interview them - we do not have the manpower to do that.

C: List more options to object to and receive a notice when any member has received 3 complaints.

R: We will be adding the CyberSex pressure as a reportable offense. Once we do that we will investigate every complaint so there is little need for a notice when 3 complaints have been received. We’ll know that when we investigate for a third time it is the third complaint.

C: Be sure the Chinese members can clearly see the blocking and complaining system.

R: We will try to add information on the page mentioned above that will clearly set our how members can blacklist anyone who has offended them.

C: Have a screen grab button on the video that an offended person uses to send an image and complaint to service@CLM.

R: We will definitely follow up regarding a report button on the video chat window. We’ll also look into the possibility of including a screen grab image being included.

C: Strongly urge members to stay on site and not go off site to QQ, Skype etc. for video chats.

R: We make it a condition of our investigating that the offensive behavior occurred on the CLM site and not elsewhere.

C: Encourage reporting by the ladies and ban the culprits by IP address.

R: Encourage reporting by the ladies, definitely. Banning by IP Address is not practical because in many countries, including China, IP addresses are not static and they change every time you turn off your internet. A banned member IP today may be a great guy the next day if you only went by IP address.

C: Name and shame the losers including publication of their pictures.

R: Sorry but we really don’t see the value of doing this. Unlike Scammer Prison where the whole purpose of publication of the offence is to protect those people who the Scammer may be still be in contact with offsite so they will know not to believe his lies and thereby lose money.

However, for the cybersex complaint it is of little value to alert the women that the guy might ask them for cybersex. They aren’t going to have their money stolen and if they’re not inclined to have cybersex they simply need to say “No thanks. Not interested.” They are not in jeopardy of losing anything.

C: Create a new wing for the jail.

R: See the response directly above.

C: Alternate the message Never Send Money / Report Members Who Ask with Report Members Who Ask for Cybersex.

R: Good Idea except it will say “Report Members who PRESSURE you to have Cybersex.”

C: Girl doesn't need proof, 2 strikes and you're out.

R: We will never impose a situation where the person accusing someone of an offense also acts as the judge and the jury, and can impose a penalty without providing evidence of the truth of her/his accusation.

You would not suggest this if some woman who you had rejected was trying to punish you for rejecting her by accusing you of asking her for cybersex.

C: Cut their dicks off!

R: We reject this idea as being something we would not like to happen to us :-(

C: Why is this different than a couple sleeping together the first night they meet?

R: The issue we’re dealing with is not whether or not two consenting members should have cybersex. They are welcome to do that!

The issue here is whether or not men hounding innocent Chinese women into having cybersex even after they have clearly said no is behavior to object to.

C: Make it easier to block or blacklist, such as a blacklist button right on the Chat window.

R: Good idea. We will try to do this.

That sums up the Q&A for this matter. Next posting we will advise what steps exactly we feel we can take to relieve our Chinese ladies from feeling insulted and abused by male members who are relentlessly pushing them to have cybersex against their will,

Copyright owned jointly by Author and CyberCupid Co., Ltd. Breach of copyright will be prosecuted.
Comments
(Showing 1 to 2 of 2) 1
#2012-10-08 23:46:27 by gaspasser @gaspasser

Lots of good ideas John...thanks for sharing......

Ray

#2012-11-25 03:08:14 by tage @tage

Congratulations keeping a level of this site , to avoid an unaware extortions you can send an initial letter to new members about rules . They should to have a chance to get the gist of CLM asap . They coming here but you know a western world , what some boys could passed through matches , cupid or local sites and media in all and what behavior can bring from there , denying as misunderstanding a Chinese canon .

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